overrestored
14 years ago
Hello all.

We spoke on this forum of Bert Lawrence in another thread a while back... and based on comments on that thread there is documentation of Bert Lawrence receiving payment for the design of the later Rometsch VW Cabrio and Coupe... as well as documentation of his receiving royalties on some of the cars produced...

previous thread link 

BUT...

is there more info on this fellow... it would be great to have more data for the Rometsch Registry.

1- Are there any photo's of him?
2- Does anyone know anything about him???
3- Can anyone provide any further info on his work prior to Rometsch... or after Rometsch?
4- What about his training etc.

Thank you!

Eric Meyer
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overrestored
14 years ago
Between theSamba and Pre67 postings on Bert Lawrence... there have been a couple of hundred views so far... and only Christian has PM'd me. No other response from anyone. Nobody knows anything???

Christian's info from the Rometsch archives shows that Mr. Lawrence was paid for his work... and that he did some other design... and was paid royalties... but he is otherwise a mystery!

No other cars designed by him... nothing else designed by him... no mention of him relating to anything automotive anywhere on the internet or in any Coachbuilding book or any other automotive book.

I can't find him in any Berlin searches... I have tried alternate spellings of Bert, Burt, Lawrence, Lawrenz, Lorenz, etc. Nothing.

There has to be SOMETHING somewhere on this guy!

Herr Wiersch in "Die Edel Kafer" shows much of the Grundmann's documentation of Lawrences payments etc... So according to this he is not a fictional person...

BUT... there was a lot of design thievery going on at this time. Peitro Frua and Luigi Segre were involved in a huge controversy about the design of the Renault Caravelle and Floride... Tatra and VW were going through their lawsuit over the Beetle design... Johannes Beeskow supposedly had a license agreement with Mercedes.. for the fender eyebrow design on the Beeskow... for their w196 and 300SL... that Mercedes never paid him for...(never mind that Beeskow had stolen it a few years earlier from Mercury) and I am sure if we dig around there were dozens of design controversies going on in the 50's.

I just wonder if perhaps Herr Lawrence was a made up name for another designer... in case a legal claim was filed by Borgward... or by Renault... or by Audi... all of whom had very similar designs.

I only wonder this... because Mr. Lawrence has never been credited or mentioned anywhere else EVER!


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jof
14 years ago
Hello from Germany,

I wrote you an E-Mail via this forum, hope you got it...

Regards

Jörg
overrestored
14 years ago
I got an email from Jorg...and got in touch with an ex rometsch employee he reminded me about. Via this I am told that Herr Lawrence was said to be a fashion designer in Berlin. So this gives us a small clue. Let's all keep searching please.
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JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
14 years ago



I just wonder if perhaps Herr Lawrence was a made up name...

overrestored wrote:



I´d lay very good odds on that being the case, particularly as he seems to be such a phantom. Also because of the English sounding name in Germany.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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pbaptist
14 years ago
Today, my friend Rene van Hulzen called with Mr Kaulmann.

Here are his German remarks

Ich hatte Heute ein längeres Gespräch mit Hr. Kaulmann, inzwischen 84 Jahre alt, aber immer noch sehr fitt (auch sein Erinnerungsvermögen ) Zunächst: Er möchte sich von einige Aussagen aus den oben genannten Text distanzieren, er sei nicht immer korrekt wiedergegeben worden. Das sind aber nur Details...
Es war sehr interessant mit ihm zu sprechen; viele Hintergrundinfos und Anekdoten aus der Zeit, zuviel um hier zu schreiben.
Interessant waren seine Angaben zu den Produzierten Lawrences: er war bis 1961 bei Rometsch angestellt, wechselte danach zu Karmann wo er wieder auf Hr. Beezkow traf (aber das ist eine andere Geschichte). Er hat das Auto nr. 581 noch gebaut, das letzte Auto nr. 585 müsste kurz danach gebaut worden sein (steht bei den Grundmanns und ist aus Restbestände" zusammengebaut), da inzwischen die Mauer gebaut wurde und die Hälfte der Belegschaft im Osten wohnte. Danach wurde die Produktion eingestellt. Er meinte, dass die keine Nummern übersprungen hätten (das war so ein Gerücht das Rometsch Nummern übersprungen hätte, um den Anschein zu erwecken, dass die Anzahl der gebauten Lawrences höher sei als tatsächlich). Herr Kaulmann meinte zunächst dass max etwa 50 Stück gebaut sind, dann nachdem ich die letzte Nummer 585 erwähnt hatte, tippte er dann doch auf 84 gebauten Lawrences.
Herr Bert Lawrence, der Designer des Autos war eigentlich kein Autodesigner. Er meinte, Herr Lawrence sei ein Möbeldesigner der für Herr Rometsch aus Nettigkeit nebenbei das Auto entworfen hat (zu Bert Lawrence gibt es nämlich keine Infos oder weitere Autodesigns zu finden). Die Konstruktionszeichnungen anhand der Vorlage von Hr Lawrence hat Herr Kaulmann gemacht und auch verbessert (einige Urspungsideen waren wohl unpraktikabel).
Herr Kaulmann hat auch die Konstruktion eines Fiat-Rometsch 1400 gemacht. Davon gab es leider wohl nur 1 Prototype laut seiner Aussage. Auch das Rätsel des Runden Rücklichtes (auch bei meinem Auto montiert) ist gelöst. Rometsch hat viele Fremdteile für die Bau seines Autos verwendet, zB später auch die Ovale Rückleuten des Fiat 1100. Woher die Runden Rückleuchten kamen war unklar. Die Runde Rückleuchten stammen vom Ford 17M Taunus. Wenn man Fotos im Internet aufruft kann das tatsächlich stimmen.

Soweit dazu.....
Mein Auto kommt erst nächste Woche Muss mich weiter gedulden und dass fällt mir schwer.
Grüße
Rene


The most important messages:
Mr Kaulmann said that no bodynumbers were skipped. He tought about 50 were make, but after telling the last known bodynumber 585, he said that 84 must be the currect amount build

Bert Lawrence was a furniture designer and made the design for Herr Rometsch. Mr Kaulmann made some changes to the design to make it more practical.

Regards
Patrick
fantakid
14 years ago
Hi,
it is funny - we have in our documents the orginal books from mr Kaulmann were he wrote wich parts they used and were he had to order . I checked today the stuff and i found a lot orginal drawings and there is nothing written of Ford 17M but .....
I think that mr Kaulmann must have misstake here - his peronal files say someting else .
Christian
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SplitPersonality
14 years ago
Interetsing Christian... what exactly does the text at the bottom of the framed picture say?