Guys

I'm looking to fit an oval/late 50's era split case gearbox into my 1950 floorpan so that I have largely synchromesh gears. As you will be aware an oval split case box will not fit straight in, but I have been told that if I get hold of a nose cone from a pre 59 bus gearbox, ie a split case box out of a Type 2, this nose cone and hockey stick lowers the gear shifting shaft to suit the earlier pan and will allow the oval box to fit, albeit with a bit of modification to the bus nose cone.

Has anyone done this mod and, or does anyone know if this mod works. I have a guy offering a bus nose cone to me which appear to be correct, but I want to be sure this will work before parting with my cash.

Any help or guidance would be gratefully received. What would be even better is if someone could confirm what the part number is, assuming the mod works

Thanks in advance

Glenn

PS I have pictures of the nose cone on offer that I could post up if that would help?

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Anyone???

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There is a nose cone for sale on here in the VWs forsale section that may help.



Andy W

Yeah, I saw that Andy and did contact the guy, but he indicated they were split parts only, so I'm not sure if they would go on the front of a oval split case box?

What I need is both boxes side by side to compare or someone who has done the mod and knows if it works.

Thanks for the pointer though.

Anyone else help?

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What about getting the part numbers for the side casings and seeing if thay are the same if thay are then the nose cone should fit. (hopefuly)



Andy W

That's an excellent idea Andy. I'd assumed that the nose cone and casing numbers were different, but if they are the same or have a series of numbers that clearly reference each other as matching part then that could be the answer................" never assume, it makes an ASS of U and ME !" :wink:

I check and report back

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i know of a bloke who has made an adaptor plate to fit a late type transaxel in to a oval floorpan (its an old GP Buggy hes just got) :wink:


Andy W

If you need to buy a nosecone, why not give Pete at Cogbox a call and ask him if he has one that will make an oval box fit in a split - I'm sure he would be able to help.

Personally, I think you should keep the crash box - it's part of the 'character' 😎

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It's an idea, but I think the problem is the shaft on an oval box nose cone is higher that that of a split box and the idea behind fitting a bus nose cone is that it drops it down to the correct level, all you have to do then is a bit of judicious trimming of the webs to get it to sit exactly right - I got this info from Owen Warlow, who may or may not have done this mod, I'm not too sure.

I've checked the box and nose cone numbers and they are not the same or even similar, so I asked for the bus nose cone number to se if it is the same as the bug one but prefixed with a 2 - that way at least I know it will fit my box (in therory :?: )

Thanks for the feed back again Andy

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Yeap, another good idea, I suppose if anyone knows he will!

I've spoken to quite a few people about using an original box and without fail they have all said if you can avoid a full crash box you should. I've always found my oval box to be pretty usable so I'm kinda going with what I know.......................besides I don't actually have a crash box :roll:

Any more thoughts anyone, all input welcome :smile:

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hi

The problem is two different nose cone
Pictures from the crash box nose on the right and the oval nose left side
Different 1 the pinion bearing is deeper in the nose than the crash nose
Different 2 the lock for the rear gear axle
Different 3 the lenght of the nose

When you mount the crash nose on a oval gearbox your shiftstick wil not work it's to short

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Will the transaxle from a Zwitter Fit From October 52 gearbox number A-8 324 461 735 Was syncro ( the A means syncro ) I am sure the box i took out of my zwitter had the nose as shown on the left also its the same fitting as a barn door type 2. The floor pan on my zwitt sat on had the leaver arm rear dampers so pre April 51

Zwitter october 1952 up to march 1953 has no levershocks on the rear

The A gear box has only the 2-3-4 syncro not the first gear

Your gear box from the Zwitter has the same as show on the picture correct, but it dont fit in a early chassis without some welding

Hi nicholas you are right the Zwitter did not have lever dampers but the floor pan mine fitted to did it was a very early pan with lever dampers.



Andy W

Hi Nicolass,......... guys

Thanks for the reply, the pictures are really helpful.

Looking at the third picture where you have the bug nosecone on the left and the bus one on the right - it looks like they are exactly the same height (length from base to the top of the nose cone) and it looks like the linkage shafts come out on the same centre line position in both planes, ie side to side axis and vertical axis. The only difference I can see is the is the bug nose cone has the front mounting position and the bus one doesn't - which is exactly the bit I am looking to get rid of.

Now, a full non syncro box (the type that should be fitted to my 1950 pan) doesn't have a front mount, it sits in the rubber donut and horse shoe arrangement, so with a little modification wouldn't that bus nose cone be able to do the same thing? In other words allow me to fit an oval box straight into my 50 pan.

If the shafts come out of both nose cones in the same position and they both come off an oval split case box then I can't see why this wouldn't work????...............or have I missed something?

I have also spoken to Pete of Cogbox and he seemed to think that the bus and bug nosecones had a different shaft centreline position in the vertical axis which would make the box sit wrong in a bug pan, but from the pictures that doesn't look to be the case.

The other thing Pete suggested is that I simply cut the front mount off my oval box and trim up the nose cone to fit, as the centre line position of the linkage shaft in both axis didn't change from year to year in early cars. This too seemed to make perfect sense.

So there appears to be a few options on the table here - anyone else have an opinion on this?

Cheers for your continued input chaps

Glenn

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Anymore thoughts guys???

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Hi Dexter,

What was the final set that you went with? I am looking at using a wagen west lolipop mount to a split bus nose cone. Has any one used this on a split beetle floorpan? The box is a split case and is a crash transmission but I believe it to have a bus front nosecone. I am using the standard rear gearbox mount for a split beetle. I believe that butty does a solid mount that may also work as opposed to the wagen west which is a hybrid of the oval and split era front gearbox mounts but has a rubber donut incorporated into it. The floorpan seams to take all four gears and reverse at the min with the existing nosecone so I think just a front mount from either supplier will let me away. Or if someone has a split beetle nose cone and front rubber and u shaped cone support send me a pm or email to [email protected] or 07979812848. All advice wil be greatly appreciated. I also have a complete oval synchro on 2 3 4 box that I could use but will go with the crash box as it is split beetle bar the nosecone. My floorpan is 1952 split that uses the horseshoe and rubber donut mount at the front of the gearbox.

Thanks in advance, Colin.

Hi Colin

I haven't been able to solve this problem for certain yet, but you are trying to do something slightly different to me. If you have a period correct box for your car with the exception of the nose cone I would hold out and get the correct nose cone and fittings. That way you know it will go straight in the chassis and will work exactly as it was intended.

I didn't want a full crash box for driveability purposes, that is why I wanted to fit an oval era box with 3 syncro gears. After much tooing and froing I didn't really get to the bottom of which bus nose cone to use, so I gave that idea up.

However, what I did do was speak to Pete at Cogbox to get some advice. Although I don't think he had done this modification himself (he tends to build performance gearboxes) he said he was certain that the input shaft on split bug gearboxes was in exactly the same position, relative height and orientation as an oval era box, the only thing that changed was how the box mounted to the chassis. He suggested that with a bit of careful trimming, re-shaping and filing the nose cone of an oval box could be changed to replicate a split bug nose cone and hey presto gearbox fit the chassis.

As yet I haven't tested this theory, but it sounds like a good bet to me, so I will be giving it a go at some point.

I have done a bit of searching on the interweb for split case box nose cone pictures to do a comparison, but I haven't found any good images yet - anyone out there got some for reference purposes????

Cheers

Glenn

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Hi, I can help with pics as my 2 3 4 synchro split case box that I am not using came out of a 1954 oval floorpan and so I can get a pic of it for you or tell you the codes on the nose cone. I sold the oval floor but kept the box to use on the split floorpan. Then I came across a full crash non synchro box with it seems a bus nose cone which i think is the same as the one on the oval box. I will get you pics of both boxes and nose cones.

Regards Colin

hello Dexter i have a 58 box and it has a donut style full crash box nose cone on it, i have not taken it off to see what hockey stick was used ,but it looks straight forward to do.