overrestored
2008-01-01T19:13:04Z
We put our noses up at vintage cars with big new monster 1600 based motors... yet we are impressed by vintage cars with old monster 36 horse motors.

Repro vintage speed stuff is ok... but not as cool as truly old vintage speed stuff... while actual contemporary speed stuff... that will blow the doors off the newer repro vintage speed stuff or the actual vintage stuff... is frowned upon.

We are an odd lot.

We want to go historically as fast as possible. But not as fast as is really possible.

and just for fun...

I think the following may be the oldest "hot vw" in the world. There was no vintage speed equipment in 1942... so how do you decide what is appropriate? Why is it sacreligious to put a big motor in this car (which was a total wreck of wrong parts to begin with) ... and ok to put a big okrasa in a perfect 1952 split... or a 2180 berg motor in a all original 67?

see:

1942 drag racing 
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overrestored
2008-01-01T19:29:46Z
Please understand... I am trying to start a discussion on this... I am not on a "flame" quest.

I am interested in peoples thought on what is cool... or uncool... with respect to fast vw's... and the reasoning why.

I have gone both ways on this over time. I really enjoyed building the rat Kubel... yet I really got mad when I saw what was done with that Black 2180 Beeskow in Japan. This is odd to me... because essentially nothing was destroyed on either car... either could have been brought back to stock in a day of work. (the chopped windscreen on the kubel was made from scratch... and the original left intact)


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pre67vw
2008-01-01T19:31:52Z
I think with vintage speed it's not really about 'speed' at all, it's about rarity with the added benefit of keeping up with modern traffic.

If someone wants to put a 2ltr motor in their split, that's up to them. Doesn't mean we have to like it!
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
overrestored
2008-01-01T19:37:38Z
yes... I suppose that is a good point. getting the cars to a point you feel safe driving them in modern conditions.... which points to uprated 356 A brakes too in my mind.

I think maybe it is about fun... rather than speed. It is not the actual speed that I am after... it is about having a car I can enjoy.

I enjoy driving a nice 36 horse... but for some reason... I sure smile a lot more with the okrasa in the car. :D


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pre67vw
2008-01-01T19:42:26Z
Kübel looks downright dangerous, unusual to be able to race without a cage.

I'm past caring whether or not someone puts a huge engine in their VW and lowers it etc., what still annoys me though is that when these cars still think they should be able to take part in a 'vintage' show - but thats another discussion... :evil:
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
pre67vw
2008-01-01T19:46:24Z
Also, to add further confusion into the pot. Whereas I have no interest in the 'modern speed' formula, the 36hp Land Speed Challenge really appeals to me:

http://www.burlyb.com/ 

I would love to build a real old style racer and run on the salt flats. Does that make me a bad person? :?
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
overrestored
2008-01-01T20:01:50Z
Go for it with the land speed racer.

I say we get that aluminum car out of the wolfsburg museum... (the one with the lightened wheels and aerodynamic streamliner body)... and bring it to bonneville and put the pedal to the metal with a variety of engines... from bone stock 25 horse... on up.

I felt the same way about that kubel without the roll bar. I never drag raced it.... I really just built it to help get rid of the "boat anchor" 2110 I had laying around in my garage from when I was a kid. Hard to sell big motors without losing a lot of money. Easier when they are in a car everyone wants.





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JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2008-01-02T00:06:51Z
I'm pretty happy when there is another old VW on the road and not in the scrapyard. If its restored nicely so much the better. Restored cars are nice to look at and fun to drive in a semi masochistic kind of way, and big engined cars are a riot to drive. Horses for courses really.

I'm swinging in the direction of vintage speed for my cabrio for several reasons. First is that its a highly original and un-molested car. I respect its history for that reason. If it had been restored from a wreck with mostly new parts, I doubt I'd be half as bothered. My other motivation is of course trying to sneak past the German regulations. Theres also the fact that I don't think Cabrios particularly suit the lowered, big and little rubber and a big engine look. I mean to say, I think they look OK like that, but not better than standard. Just different. A historic car should have an historic (looking) engine. If it makes it more fun to drive, then why not add to your enjoyment?


"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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lifeintheslowlane
2008-01-03T08:48:19Z
I suppose it depends on the vintage of the car and just how you define "period accessories."

For example is it acceptable to fit a Judson to a Split? The Split is Pre '53 and the VW Judson didn't arrive until 1956...is that "period."

My Lowlight '58 KG has a 40hp motor but I plan to keep the 40hp as it forms a more robust platform for a early '60s vintage speed tweek I have in mind for it.

I suppose if you can justify it to yourself to hell with the anal hairsplitters. :lol:
John.
dinsdale
2008-01-03T14:26:28Z
"lifeintheslowlane" wrote:

I suppose it depends on the vintage of the car and just how you define "period accessories."

For example is it acceptable to fit a Judson to a Split? The Split is Pre '53 and the VW Judson didn't arrive until 1956...is that "period."



I seem to remember a similar discussion coming up after an early issue of Volksworld which featured an Okrasa powered split window. A rather grumpy letter said it wasn't 'period' because the Okrasa wasn't available when the car was new. I thought this was irrelevant as it was still available during the life of the vehicle and fitted without any real issues.

I really don't want the VW scene to ever get like so many classic car clubs Porsche & MG for example, where they start checking you haven't over polished something or that the stickers in the engine bay are aligned correctly.

Pete
--
'54 beetle with Okrasa
'54 Beetle with Okrasa
pre67vw
2008-01-03T14:53:25Z
"dinsdale" wrote:


I thought this was irrelevant as it was still available during the life of the vehicle and fitted without any real issues.



If the split is still around then anything new is still within the life of the vehicle?

To me, it all depends which 'period' you are going for, okrasa's in split deluxe's (not standards :wink: ) or coachbuilts are fine because it's the 50's period. Or you could put loads of scat parts on a split and a whale tail and call it a 70's period car... what is incorrect to me is a later car, as without time travel it can never be 'period' correct. :?

Welcome to the forum by the way! 😃 got any photo's of your Okrasa you can post?
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2008-01-03T16:03:27Z
According to the TÜV, there is a regulation regarding historic tuning, that says that you can fit any tuning parts or modifications made or carried out within ten years of when the vehicle was new.

This arguably means I can fit early Fuchs to my 1958 car! I'm sure there were some fairly serious engine mods being done by 1968 too. There are references to lowering a Beetle in print as early as 1965, so thats allowed too.

If the TÜV think it counts as "period tuning" then who am I to argue?:twisted:


"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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lifeintheslowlane
2008-01-03T16:07:31Z
I kind of think the 2 late '50s early '60s books "Making The Volkswagen Go" and "Souping The Volkswagen" are a couple of good guides to what was available at that time.

I also have a digital copy of the '58 EMPI Catalogue (courtesy of Andy Sparks) and that's another good source but again only as a guide...none of them should be treated as a Bible.
John.
dinsdale
2008-01-04T19:51:13Z
"pre67vw" wrote:


To me, it all depends which 'period' you are going for, okrasa's in split deluxe's (not standards :wink: ) or coachbuilts are fine because it's the 50's period. Or you could put loads of scat parts on a split and a whale tail and call it a 70's period car... what is incorrect to me is a later car, as without time travel it can never be 'period' correct. :?

Welcome to the forum by the way! 😃 got any photo's of your Okrasa you can post?



Only got one picture from when it first went in, I'll get more after I've cleaned it a bit!

Cheers

Pete
dinsdale attached the following image(s):

'54 Beetle with Okrasa
pre67vw
2008-01-04T20:05:57Z
"dinsdale" wrote:



Only got one picture from when it first went in, I'll get more after I've cleaned it a bit!

Cheers

Pete



Nice!! 😎
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2008-01-05T01:27:17Z
Cleaned it up a bit?!?! I've never had a glove box that clean!

BTW - are those special Okrasa bottom pulleys?
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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brezel53
2008-01-05T18:29:16Z
"JD" wrote:


BTW - are those special Okrasa bottom pulleys?



Hello,

no, this is a Porsche 356 pre A pulley, very often seen on "today made" okrasa engines.

I have also a Porsche "power" pulley installed on my okrasa :D

UserPostedImage

Wolfgang

myokrasa 
JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2008-01-05T19:04:39Z
Hi Wolfgang. I see you are in Munich. I'm not so far away in Stuttgart.
I was wondering what you do about problems with the TÜV? Are you on an "H" plate, or an "07" plate? I really need to find out about ths stuff before I spend all my money on tuning parts!

Lovely car by the way. 🙂
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
UserPostedImage
overrestored
2008-01-05T19:54:39Z
for those of you that don't know about the Porsche pulleys...

There are two sizes. The larger pre A size was on the two piece case engines... vw cases. The smaller Porsche pulley was on the 3 piece case that came out in 1955.

For okrasas... Usually the larger pulley is best because it spins the vw fan at the same speed as a stock VW pulley. The smaller "power"pulley spins the fan a tad slower but doesn't rob as much power... so unless you have a fan with more blades... your engine will run hotter.

Don't EVER use a vw style pulley remover tool (that pulls from the outside edge of the pulley) on a Porsche pulley! you will break the cast pulley like I did!

Dumb dumb.
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dinsdale
2008-01-06T19:49:29Z
"JD" wrote:

Cleaned it up a bit?!?! I've never had a glove box that clean!



It isn't that clean now 🙂 I put 5000 miles on it last year so it's gained some road dirt and oil. I've also got different air cleaners on it at the moment.

Pete
'54 Beetle with Okrasa