GKL 7
2009-02-25T20:54:26Z
Standard split wrote:

Not sure about the reproduction comment George



Joking apart about reproductions, John.
Rattletrap is dubious,allways has been.
Must be 30 years since i first saw it and the story seemed "iffy" back then. Pre accident.

But like i said £4.5K,whats that nowadays,you could have some great fun with Rattletrap on that money.
What if it is only half Split..... it's half price:lol:
Standard split
2009-02-25T21:25:21Z
Quote:

you could have some great fun with Rattletrap
Quote:



Someone's going to have great fun with it – that's for sure :d



Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
stu
2009-02-25T21:51:46Z
Standard split wrote:

Amazingly enough, it looks as though Rattletrap was repaired after its big smash with a truck, and not rebodied as some think :shock:

The pics of the 're-borne car' if studied show what must be a replacement later style small window door, August 1955 - 1964, (small latch and no inside ribbing) on what was the badly damaged side, but still the pre August 1955 ribbed door on the undamaged (driver's) side. Also, you can see where the headlining has been cut back toward the rear to allow the roof to be straightened/welded:!:

Given that Tony Levy had the wreck hauled all the way back to England from Mexico, and that the car had such a huge amount of skilled repair work I would say there is something in the record mileage claim:wink:



rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check..
Standard split
2009-02-26T09:29:26Z
Quote:

rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check.
Quote:



If that were correct it would not explain the older style door on one side and a later type on the repaired side. Then there is the cut back headlining clearly visible in the pictures with the remainder of the headling undisturbed around the rear window. So we know the split window has not been welded in. We also know that a genuine zwitter donor car would hardly likely to have been found and destroyed for its body shell :?


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2009-02-26T11:45:57Z
Standard split wrote:

rattletrap received a whole new body shell, the original was to damaged to repair, there was a complete feature on the resto/rebuild in vwmotoring if anyone wants to check.

If that were correct it would not explain the older style door on one side and a later type on the repaired side. Then there is the cut back headlining clearly visible in the pictures with the remainder of the headling undisturbed around the rear window. So we know the split window has not been welded in. We also know that a genuine zwitter donor car would hardly likely to have been found and destroyed for its body shell :?



You´re grasping at shadows here. It was rebodied. The doors can be unbolted. The headliner comes out too. I expect Tony wanted to retain as many original parts as possible in the rebuild to complete the illusion of it still being the same car.

Why do you say that a Zwitter was "destroyed" for its body? Doesn´t look destroyed to me.

Check here if in any further doubt. Post 15...

https://www.volkszone.co....php?t=533741&page=2 
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
UserPostedImage
Standard split
2009-02-26T13:13:00Z
Not so:!:

This picture very clearly shows the old headlining UNDISTURBED still around the rear window running down around the side rear panels. It is also clear in this and other pictures that it has been stripped back from the roof – to allow the repair, panel beating and maybe welding of the damaged central/side roof area.

If this was a complete body from another car the head lining would either been intact, or completely replaced. Tony was anxious to retain as much of his original car as possible. I remember seeing it at Stonor after the rebuild and Tony showing me what had been done to save his car :d

To fit a later door would raise door mechanism issues. The striker plate would have to change to take the new latch. This of course can be done, but its not a straight screw-on and replace job. I think here is a retaining plate for the striker plate inside the quarter panel to get at, and the moulding area is different where the plate sits. However as the car has had all later panels on the right-hand side, the later door mated-up perfectly with the later quarter panel. And so Rattletrap still has its old door and panels on the left! And as for removing and refitting an ancient decaying frail headliner – are you serious!

And YES it would also mean a rare zwitter was dismantled and lost to provide a replacement body (which didn’t happen). More likely that a post ‘55 – pre 65 car was cut-up to provide the replacement right-hand panels and bonnet.

A complete replacement body was not used – why would you have the odd door senario that I have descrided and half a headlining. Maybe I’m talking nonsense and Mr Levy was a complete liar (NOT my opinion).

But the pictures tell their own story.:wink:
Standard split attached the following image(s):

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
2009-02-26T13:53:49Z
I think we should leave the topic of whether or not the shell was replaced unless you KNOW it was or it wasn't. Just because someone read something once doesn't make it a fact, magazine articles are quite often inaccurate. I would think it would be fairly obvious looking at the underside of the repaired areas whether or not new sections were laid in or not.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
JD
  •  JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
2009-02-26T14:03:39Z
If you don´t beleive the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction" (chooses word carefully!) and was there, and saw what happened, then I don´t know what else I can tell you.

I shall say no more Rob.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
UserPostedImage
Standard split
2009-02-26T14:24:23Z
Quote:

the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction"
Quote:



She may have seen the body shell of the donor car before it was cut up for the parts to repair Rattletrap.

No disrespect to the ladies, and certainly not to our MrsHerbie, but the average woman (and a lot of men) aren't that interested and so not greatly observant of these issues. Plus the car was repaired rather a long time ago.

i've had as much experience as anyone with these old cars and know what I can see. I also know that VWM magazine was sometimes a little economical with accuracy.

I expect many of us will beg to differ on Rattletrap's pedigree. But all the debate, stories and features that Rattletrap seems to attract is part of what makes it such a special and one of the most well-known Beetles.

Let's hope it gets out of the museum and turns its wheels again :beer:



Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
2009-02-26T15:00:02Z
JD wrote:

If you don´t beleive the word of the wife of the guy who did the "reconstruction" (chooses word carefully!) and was there, and saw what happened, then I don´t know what else I can tell you.

I shall say no more Rob.



It's not that I don't believe it. The internet is in some ways the same as magazines - as soon as something is presented as fact then it makes its way into history as being fact. A lot of people seem to be believing the new shell story because of a magazine article and are now presenting it here as fact, and yet they weren't there and have maybe never even seen the car. I prefer my facts to have proof :d
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
mrsherbie
2009-02-26T17:28:02Z
I agree, I dont believe magazines or the internet without seeing real proof or being told by someone who I know has seen something first hand.
But in this case I have to agree with JD, the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles because they both know this car in the metal from the past.
"it'll wreck the patina you haven't worked so hard to create" - 50Karmann
Standard split
2009-02-26T18:45:08Z
Quote:

the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles
Quote:



Perhaps then they can explain why the supposedly replaced shell is made-up of different year parts with half a headlining:?:

I think the replacement shell claim is total nonsense :!:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
GKL 7
2009-02-26T18:53:55Z
If this was all magazine featured....Why hasn't one of the believers come forward with a scan of the said article.
Wouldn't solve much,but i'm just surprised no one has come up with the feature.

More important than this .....who owns it now.
54 Gertie
2009-02-26T19:00:40Z
Originally Posted by: ' 



More important than this .....who owns it know.



I have a feeling that it will be a collector who will put it in his garage, never drive it and it will completely fall off the VW radar! :roll: :wink:
William
Standard split
2009-02-26T19:14:11Z
Quote:

If this was all magazine featured....Why hasn't one of the believers come forward with a scan of the said article.
Wouldn't solve much,but i'm just surprised no one has come up with the feature.
Quote:



It does seem odd that a photographic record wasn't made of such a big repair to such a famous car, I must admit:?

Quote:

I have a feeling that it will be a collector who will put it in his garage, never drive it and it will completely fall off the VW radar!
Quote:



Do people do things like that :shock:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
54 Gertie
2009-02-26T19:21:28Z
Standard split wrote:


Do people do things like that :shock:



Well, yes!

It has been known and a lot of early cars are in collections and are never seen, annoyingly! :wink:
William
GKL 7
2009-02-26T19:32:21Z
Standard split wrote:


Do people do things like that :shock:




I can think of one or two John:wink:
Sunroof53
2009-02-26T19:46:03Z
Standard split wrote:

the only 2 people I can have complete faith in their judgment are Robin and Mrs Terrys Beetles

Perhaps then they can explain why the supposedly replaced shell is made-up of different year parts with half a headlining:?:

I think the replacement shell claim is total nonsense :!:




You need to make a phone call to Terrys Beetle services .The truth is out there and not difficult to find:!:
stu
2009-02-26T20:16:56Z
i do chuckle listening to the children on volkszone talking complete bollocks
Standard split
2009-02-26T20:18:58Z
Quote:

You need to make a phone call to Terrys Beetle services .The truth is out there and not difficult to find
Quote:



Only pictures taken during the repair/rebuild can prove anything. Word of mouth does not, especially after so many years, with people's memories of the event becoming blurred and confused by the 'Rattletrap's a fake theories' going around.

Looking at the car which is still very real, and hardly touched since the rebuild does clearly tell a story of an extensive body repair. It does not indicate that it has a whole new body. One can only judge by the facts laid out before them.

It is really not conceivable that another split-window Beetle would be broken-up for its body shell. And remember, back then splits were harder to come by.

An early Oval would be an obvious sacrifice at the time, and then weld Rattletrap's back window in, that's how a few zwitters have come to exist and some of their owners probably don't even know:!:

But back to Rattletrap's rear window, it still has the old headlining around it, into the rear quarter panels and into the roof, so we know it hasn't been disturbed. This old cloth would disintegrate if removed and could not be put back to look as it does. Nearby welding of course would destroy it.

It's a fantastic show car for somebody that loves some history with their rare car, it will always be popular at VW and non-VW car shows.

Sold well below its true value I think. :wink:



Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
:d
The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
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