Standard split
12 years ago
Ivan wrote:

So, the fact this car is still here is AMAZING. And we should celebrate this!

Oh, and I stand by what I say - very few VWs of this vintage would be free from rot.

I think the whole point here is that the car that is the subject of this thread has welding that is obviously NOT repairs to rust, or even accident damage.

Round the dash, the door latch mouldings (both sides) for example.

It is great that these cars exist. Your earlier comments on values during the '70s is so true. I understand that my '47 was dragged from a scrap yard for £25 in the early 1970's. I'd expect to see some 000s after that now :shock:

My '47s untouched, does need some first time welding, but has less rot than most later Beetles. I don't plan on a 'restoration' though. Its the left-alone 40's Beetles which will become the holy grail VWs :beer:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Ivan
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12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

I think the whole point here is that the car that is the subject of this thread has welding that is obviously NOT repairs to rust, or even accident damage.

Round the dash, the door latch mouldings (both sides) for example.

It is great that these cars exist. Your earlier comments on values during the '70s is so true. I understand that my '47 was dragged from a scrap yard for £25 in the early 1970's. I'd expect to see some 000s after that now :shock:

My '47s untouched, does need some first time welding, but has less rot than most later Beetles. I don't plan on a 'restoration' though. Its the left-alone 40's Beetles which will become the holy grail VWs :beer:

I can't see what need there would be for welding on a car body if it is not down to rust or accident damage - as surely if a body panel is not rusted or damaged it would not need to touched, would it?

Perhaps the question we should discuss is this; If a VW has had ANY welding should it not be denounced as no longer being the car that left the factory?!

If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'.

Standard split
12 years ago
Ivan wrote:

I can't see what need there would be for welding on a car body if it is not down to rust or accident damage - as surely if a body panel is not rusted or damaged it would not need to touched, would it?

Perhaps the question we should discuss is this; If a VW has had ANY welding should it not be denounced as no longer being the car that left the factory?!

If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'.

1) Only to make it something else:?:

2) Tatty original to my mind is better than immaculate restored.

Now the VW38 is well into 'restoration' there is even less of it left than when found. Its merely an illusion now :!:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

pre67vw
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12 years ago
Ivan wrote:

If so, do not do anything to your '47 as by doing 'first time welding' will mean it is no longer 'untouched'.

I think it's less about that and more about the worry of some kind of deception? It's not often that cars rust around the dash area so much that it would need that amound of welding, although crash damage would be a possibility.

My opinion is that it all depends on your wallet, if you want a very original 47 then this doesn't look like the car - but if a Heb came up in this condition that I could afford I'd be all over it.


Rob Amos

Happiness is a stock VW

48REME
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12 years ago
I think that as long as the main 'base' of the car is from 1947, it doesn't matter what's been done to it, it's still a 1947. There are much better ones maybe and there are also much worse ones but if this car is not a 'lie', ie a false reconstruction to pretend it's a 1947, then let's just appreciate it still is a historic 63-year old car that may have suffered and been subject to some questionable restoration work but which has still survived the test of time.

It's true that if someone was to take it apart again and rebuild it properly using correct bits which wouldn't show after a beautiful paintjob then it's no different from the very accurately detailed yet very extensive reconstruction which the VW38 is currently undergoing. This, incidentally, is actually why I would have liked to see the VW38 left as found, an 'ugly' survivor full of unfortunate yet historic updates, where a few crucial 1938-only details would have still stood out. Once beautifully finished - and I have no doubt it will be painstakingly faultless in its accuracy - you won't be able to tell what's original from what's been remade. It's all debatable but I think I prefer to see the untouched historic evidence stand out, even if there are only fragments of it.

Standard split
12 years ago
48REME wrote:

I would have liked to see the VW38 left as found, an 'ugly' survivor full of unfortunate yet historic updates, where a few crucial 1938-only details would have still stood out. Once beautifully finished - and I have no doubt it will be painstakingly faultless in its accuracy - you won't be able to tell what's original from what's been remade. It's all debatable but I think I prefer to see the untouched historic evidence stand out, even if there are only fragments of it.

Spot-on statement :beer:

Restored cars hide too much and lose too much. Restored cars can also be fakes :evil:

Hence my tatty and ratty but useable '47 stays as is. It will get rarer and rarer as the 'restorations' keep happening :wink:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Rich Oakley
12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

Spot-on statement :beer:

Hence my tatty and ratty but useable '47 stays as is. It will get rarer and rarer as the 'restorations' keep happening :wink:

You USE one of your cars??? Surely not?! :wink: :lol:


47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
Standard split
12 years ago
Rich Oakley wrote:

You USE one of your cars??? Surely not?! :wink: :lol:

I've shown the '49 and I plan to have Rattletrap on the road for Lavenham:wink:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

55Kab
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12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

2) Tatty original to my mind is better than immaculate restored.

Now the VW38 is well into 'restoration' there is even less of it left than when found. Its merely an illusion now :!:

It depends on your definition of tatty original. Take my car for example, it's a rare car, UK pre Aug-55 Cabrio and all that but to be quite honest it was way past the tatty original state when found and when first seen in public. Sure it may have been deemed "cool" when it first appeared but that wouldn't have lasted I'm sure. It was far more worthy of full resto than being left as it was.

As a truly historic vehicle, I had sympathy with your view of the 38. Don't get me wrong, I think it's fantastic it's being restored and the HO team are carrying out a truely amazing job but given all this, a little bit of me feels that it would have been better to fully reconstuct a 38 lookalike given one already exists in the VW Museum and left this original as it was found. It's one of those debates that will run and run and never end.

kdf38
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12 years ago
What about the "Pre 1 May 1949" [ Standards ] that look like "Pre 1948"? Here is a rough but rare

1949 with a 1947 style dash (from the factory naturally) ....

UserPostedImage 

click to view larger....

Standard split wrote:

Ivan,

It has clearly been done in the UK. You are also mentioning a Nov '46 that's on the Samba but this car is a '47. However your 'second only to a KdF-Wagen' comment is so very, very true regarding any pre 1948 Beetle :beer:


Mike

Texas

Nov. 1947 +

Febr 1949 shell

Standard split
12 years ago
kdf38 wrote:

What about the "Pre 1 May 1949" [ Standards ] that look like "Pre 1948"? Here is a rough but rare

1949 with a 1947 style dash (from the factory naturally) ....

For me the holy grail VWs are those with the 5 ribs below the inside rear window. They were reduced to 3 early 1948, moving further away from the KdF 😮

Wouldn't turn-down any '40s VW though :wink:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Ovaltine
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12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

For me the holy grail VWs are those with the 5 ribs below the inside rear window. They were reduced to 3 early 1948, moving further away from the KdF 😮

Wouldn't turn-down any '40s VW though :wink:

I don't think I'd turn down any 'double dash' split. Up until the Zwitter model they hadn't changed much from the kdf Wagen 😎


The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Standard split
12 years ago
But when do you stop:?:

The Beetle was under continuous gradual change from 1938 - 2003 :roll:

I think the real cut-off point has to be the removal of the split rear window –

'A Beetle's not a hit unless the rear window is split' :!: :wink:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

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