GKL 7
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12 years ago
Robb wrote:

all about the eagle eyes :lol:

:?:

Standard split
12 years ago
I've noticed that the latch striker plates are different from those on my mainly unrestored '47. One of my '47s are pictured here (sorry flash has made image a little blotchy), it is a single notch 2-screw type as my '44 was too. The ones on the '47 being discussed show the more common type of '48-55 cars, 2 notch 3-screw. The moulding recess shape looks very slightly different.

Pre '48 doors, locks and hinges have subtle differences from later splits also:?

 '47 Striker plate.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.  pics159.jpg You have insufficient rights to see the content.


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Ovaltine
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12 years ago
Any more known about the outcome of this split?

Seems to be another rattletrap rebuild but without Rattltraps status :?


The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Rich Oakley
12 years ago
Ovaltine wrote:

Any more known about the outcome of this split?

Seems to be another rattletrap rebuild but without Rattltraps status :?

I haven't heard from Adam since he agreed to buy it from the US but I would guess that it is here by now. Having seen the restoration pictures afterwards, it appears that the car is part later car and part early split. Judging by the striker plate pics, the early parts of the car seem to have been taken from a '48 or later car (as John mentions above). The only other area of concern for me when I saw the finished car pictures from Adam was the front cross panel behind the spare wheel. This has been replaced at some point with a fabricated panel as it doesn't have the correct pressings.

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If I was Adam, I think I'd just get in, drive the thing and not worry about the details! It's a great looking car.


47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
Ovaltine
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12 years ago
Those door lock plates still dont look exactly the same as that pictured before by Standard Split on his unrestored '47:?

Could it really be a later split with early parts welded in, has the chassis been altered in the same way, I understand that before 1950 the floor pans were flat.

I hope to get a split at some point but find in a worry that some cars may not be authentic, ovals with split windows welded in I have heard about.


The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Rich Oakley
12 years ago
Ovaltine wrote:

Those door lock plates still dont look exactly the same as that pictured before by Standard Split on his unrestored '47:?

The striker plates may be different on John's '47 to my '47, but the mountings are the same. The ones on Adam's car are (I think) late '48 onwards.

During the work on the car, it was sandblasted (see earlier post on this thread) and it revealed that a lot of work had been done to the body including the 'addition' of some of the early features like the door check strap holes...

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I wish I'd seen these pics before Adam bought the car 😞


47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
Standard split
12 years ago
Rich Oakley wrote:

The striker plates may be different on John's '47 to my '47, but the mountings are the same. The ones on Adam's car are (I think) late '48 onwards.

During the work on the car, it was sandblasted (see earlier post on this thread) and it revealed that a lot of work had been done to the body including the 'addition' of some of the early features like the door check strap holes...

I wish I'd seen these pics before Adam bought the car 😞

According to what you're saying with post '48 door striker plate mountings being welded into the posts, and all the various other welding issues, this is/was an August '55 on Oval body which would of course have had the later type striker plate mountings, because the '48 on type ran until 1955. Why else would someone be welding in these parts.

I find this leaving a very bad taste, and genuinely hope for the new owner that this is not the case, or that I have misunderstood your observations.


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

54 Gertie
12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

I find this leaving a very bad taste, and genuinely hope for the new owner that this is not the case, or that I have misunderstood your observations.

I think that as nothing was hidden during the restoration, online, that there is no reason to be disapointed realy. Not what I would go for really, but it looks great and there is clearly a lot of '47 steel in there.

I cant see how any prospective buyer would not have looked over the restoration thread?


William
Standard split
12 years ago
54 Gertie wrote:

I think that as nothing was hidden during the restoration, online, that there is no reason to be disapointed realy. Not what I would go for really, but it looks great and there is clearly a lot of '47 steel in there.

Well yes, and well, no.

The owner was more than happy to place the car up for sale as a 1947 model. If this is correct, then only the rear window is '47 steel.


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

RockStock
12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

only the rear window is '47 steel

& even that is glass:p !


StockRocks
Standard split
12 years ago
Come on guys, I'm not making light of this – I was one of those praising this car earlier in this thread and wouldn't like to think this may have helped sway Adam's decision to go in and buy – we're not talking a mere £2k car here.

On a plus side, once Adam gets the ride height and wheels corrected he has an attractive vintage Beetle that I for one would be very happy to be driving :beer:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Ovaltine
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12 years ago
This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?:


The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Rich Oakley
12 years ago
Ovaltine wrote:

This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?:

Yes, I think so. The car was in the UK from 1947 until 1980 when it was exported to the US. I believe these repairs were probably done in the UK during the 1960s or 70s.


47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
Ivan
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12 years ago
One can only assume that during the period the car was in the U.K. it was repaired to keep it on the road. We have to take into account the fact that during the 60's and 70's this car would have been worth very little. Ask Bob Shaill, Jim Murray, Sean Meehan, Chris Clarke or Roger Beasley and they will tell you how Splits were available for £50 to £100 and no one really cared, bar the serious VW enthusiasts. So what we would today class as the holy grail was not seen as such back then and so you wouldn't go to the extent to 'restore' the car as you would now. Take a look at the classifieds in any copy of Safer Motoring from the early 70's and you'll wish you had a time machine so you could go back and snap up all the bargains!

So, if this car doesn't meet with you high and exacting standards or originality, you should perhaps take into account these facts, plus the fact that John Jones has explained what the car 'is' and that it was not 'restored' to perfection. I think this is obvious when you look at the price... To properly restore a '47 (including purchase) would be a LOT more.

Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot, damage or updates. Most are like Trigger's broom!

If you look at the car Traugott and Christian Grundmann are currently re-creating you have to admit that they have very little of the original car - but is the most talked about car of recent times. The fact they are bringing it back is what matters, and that they will happily share it with us.

My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this '47 is what it is, an early car which has survived over 60 years and will be a joy to see here in the UK. Sure it's probably had as many panels worked on as most 1972 1200 Beetles on the road today, but who really cares - it's a 1947 VW that spend most of it's life in the UK and is no coming back!

I, for one, can't wait to see it!

Standard split
12 years ago
If we are talking a car that has been repaired over many, many years, then why as indicated by Rich Oakley has it had areas placed into it, such as the door striker plate recesses, as well as repairs near the side/rear windows?

This is not in the style of a botched-up much welded heap, the welding is not in the expected places, ie, where the metal would be rotten :?


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Ovaltine
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12 years ago
Ivan wrote:

One can only assume that during the period the car was in the U.K. it was repaired to keep it on the road. We have to take into account the fact that during the 60's and 70's this car would have been worth very little.....My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this '47 is what it is, an early car which has survived over 60 years and will be a joy to see here in the UK. Sure it's probably had as many panels worked on as most 1972 1200 Beetles on the road today, but who really cares - it's a 1947 VW that spend most of it's life in the UK and is no coming back!

I, for one, can't wait to see it!

This guy who of more concern is the Volksworld man is of course completely, or he hasn't read this thread properly or studied the pictures :roll:

The debate here is that it is a shell that appears to have had earlier features including the rear window grafted in to make it as a 1947. Whyever does he think that this is a repaired '47 shell when it is obviouly not. Even the dashboard has welding around it. Rot repairs would be around the bottom body half or in the rain channels :?


The way to end a good day out with your Split is with an Ovaltine!
Ivan
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12 years ago
Ovaltine wrote:

This guy who of more concern is the Volksworld man is of course completely, or he hasn't read this thread properly or studied the pictures :roll:

The debate here is that it is a shell that appears to have had earlier features including the rear window grafted in to make it as a 1947. Whyever does he think that this is a repaired '47 shell when it is obviouly not. Even the dashboard has welding around it. Rot repairs would be around the bottom body half or in the rain channels :?

I have to admit, I had trouble working out what you were trying to say but, I am more than happy to bow down to superior knowledge.

Let's make it simple... If, to quote the TV advert, you think that I 'Should have gone to Specsavers', then so be it.

Everyone loves a conspiracy theory...If you feel John Jones has grafted a rear window into an Oval then I have to ask if you think he did it on a grassy knoll or in the depository?

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=976095 

Virtually £20K could buy you a same month project car (but it's already under negotiation) and... If you want some of the missing parts, they're extra.

Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they?

I have tried to point out the fact that ANY November '46 build car that is on the road is second only to a KdF-Wagen (IMHO) and they are not the realms of anyone bar the fortunate few, so why should we not be celebrating the fact someone in this country will have the car and we will be able to see it?!

I'll stand by my opinions and, to be honest, I am happy for Adam Wise that he will be able to open his garage door and look at his early VW built at a time when the company was laying the foundations to be the world-beater we know today.

Standard split
12 years ago
Ovaltine wrote:

This is all not good if correct. This split is shown earlier on page 1 of this thread as being a UK registered car. So all the chopping about must have been done here in UK:?:

Ivan, I don't think anyone here is saying John carried out the welding on this car 😳

It has clearly been done in the UK. You are also mentioning a Nov '46 that's on the Samba but this car is a '47. However your 'second only to a KdF-Wagen' comment is so very, very true regarding any pre 1948 Beetle :beer:

But you have contradicted yourself by saying in your second post (with a note of irony against Ovaltine's previous observation) 'Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they?' after previously saying 'Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot…':?

This is the drawback of being the ambassador of one of the main-stream Vintage Volkswagen magazines I'm afraid – you comments on a forum will be scrutinised :wink:


Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:

Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d

http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 

Rich Oakley
12 years ago
If I was Adam, I would just get in and drive the thing. It's had some bad UK repairs many years ago and maybe in years to come, it will all be stripped down and repaired to a high standard. The repairs were definitely done pre-1980 so it looks like somebody just used the bits available to save the remains of an early car. I guess we'll never know the whole story.

The vast majority of the original bolt-on parts are there which would add up to a very large sum on their own. The numbers that Adam sent me suggested that the car is a Jan '47.

Looking forward to seeing it.


47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
Ivan
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12 years ago
Standard split wrote:

you have contradicted yourself by saying in your second post (with a note of irony against Ovaltine's pervious observation) 'Obviously, a car of this age would only have a rot in the lower half and rain gutters... They were made of thicker metal and built to last 70 years. Weren't they?' after previously saying 'Equally, very few VWs of this vintage would actually be free from rot…':?

This is the drawback of being the ambassador of one of the main-stream Vintage Volkswagen magazines I'm afraid – you comments on a forum will be scrutinised :wink:

Just to confirm - this was not a contradiction - it was meant as a quip. No one can say that a car of this vintage would only have rot in certain places and not in others! And I do not mean this car in particular -I mean ALL VWS!

Whilst it is a fact that there are certain areas which VWs commonly rot, it is also a fact that each car is unique and depending on numerous factors such as where and how the car has been used/stored/cleaned, climate, road salt and so on and this means that they can rust in pretty much any area of the bodywork. Equally - what about accident damage - another reason for body repair/replacement work

And the reference I made about 'thicker metal' is aimed at the fact at the time this car was built they were having a hard enough time just building the cars - they certainly weren't thinking they'd last over half a century!

WHATEVER this car has or hasn't had in terms of bodywork, in my opinion it doesn't detract from the fact this car is still here is AMAZING. And we should celebrate this!

Oh, and I stand by what I say - very few VWs of this vintage would be free from rot. If you're car has never had any welding done then you are in the minority.

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