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#1 Posted : 27 January 2010 09:27:03(UTC)
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This looks like being another lengthy 'Rattletrap' type debate, so I think a new thread for MRT 308 is in order RollEyes

MRT 308 is the first VW built for the UK, in February 1952 and imported new with lots of photos taken at the time, some of which I still have somewhere Cool

Edited by user 27 January 2010 10:59:20(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
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#2 Posted : 27 January 2010 09:29:26(UTC)
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Rich Oakley wrote:


MRT is a great car and one of my all-time favourites, but that doesn't make it the first if there's clear evidence to prove otherwise Wink


Proof please Rich, and good too Exclamation

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
48REME Offline
#3 Posted : 27 January 2010 11:42:15(UTC)
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Well, look in the other thread and you can read Richard's certainly well-researched facts. Where is the proof to your claims by the way?Wink
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#4 Posted : 27 January 2010 12:35:19(UTC)
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48REME wrote:
Well, look in the other thread and you can read Richard's certainly well-researched facts. Where is the proof to your claims by the way?Wink


Oh, you're back Mr Very Shiny StandardRollEyes

Having owned MRT for several years, and much researched and traced the history and seen all its documents, I'm probably in a better position than you to comment Shame on you

I'm sure Rich will place any proof he has to the contrary here Wink

Edited by user 27 January 2010 14:25:37(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
48REME Offline
#5 Posted : 27 January 2010 15:14:36(UTC)
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Standard split wrote:

I'm probably in a better position than you to comment Shame on you


But I am not in any 'position' on the matter. I am just observing that Richard has actually found out some facts. You support the theory
you want to believe, that's all. But if you're happy...then I am happy too.Wink
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#6 Posted : 27 January 2010 17:07:25(UTC)
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It cant be, I know a 47/48 that was bought new here, the car has not been on the road for many years but is still around
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#7 Posted : 27 January 2010 17:26:46(UTC)
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mooney3019 wrote:
It cant be, I know a 47/48 that was bought new here, the car has not been on the road for many years but is still around


I think they mean imported officially by VW Motors London etc, not just the first VW to hit this fine island. Wink

I suppose even if MRT is a few days newer than the other, it may have still been the first to be imported.
William
Rich Oakley Offline
#8 Posted : 27 January 2010 17:50:32(UTC)
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I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest.

Now where's my hat?
47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
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#9 Posted : 27 January 2010 19:14:10(UTC)
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Rich Oakley wrote:
I think I will have to eat some humble pie and possibly my hat too. The car in Ireland actually had a chassis number higher than MRTs. MRT is 332970, the 11D in Ireland was 333708. So it looks like John was right, MRT really is the earliest.

Now where's my hat?


Damn, and I was looking forward to a Rattletrap type debate – I was in for the long haul on thisEvil or Very Mad

People forget that I first took ownership of MRT 308 a few decades ago. I spent an awful long time and effort in checking out the early VW UK imports prior to establishing that MRT was the very first VW built for shipment here. I had info turn-up from Germany and Canada of all places. I ran it all past Volkswagen themselves who had no reason to challenge MRTs unique standing Cool Beer

But Rich, you should eat 2 hats because MRTs chassis no is earlier than the wrong one you list above. It's 325474 (February 1952), and its listed on the Samba pre '53 registry too. Suggest you leave the hats to soak overnight then add salt to taste Twisted Evil

The two most significant Volkswagens in the UK are of course Rattletrap and MRT 308. Another car here of great significance to the birth of the Volkswagen is the 1937 Tatra T97 – that lives with Rattletrap Cool




Edited by user 27 January 2010 19:17:05(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
GKL 7 Offline
#10 Posted : 27 January 2010 19:45:55(UTC)
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Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it.
Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John.
Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car.

Edited by user 27 January 2010 19:46:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#11 Posted : 27 January 2010 20:22:38(UTC)
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'50 Karmann wrote:
Is MRT 308 the car you had repainted,decided you didn't like the job so decided to have it repainted again,then had an arguement with the paint shop so left it out in the rain,bare.It is with Fred in N.Ireland now, isn't it.Story i heard he had to re-restore it.
Yes, i remember seeing it at Stoneleigh,carrying a very shiny paint job.Must have changed your taste since then John.
Rumour still has it, this is the No2 car.


Roughly correct, George.

The paint shop made a shambles of the car. Within weeks the paint developed tiny bubbles and peeled off. I had to sue. The next place, a VW specialist (not franchise), were keen to have the car to sort it out. Too keen to have the car in fact – they wanted to keep it. They took the body off, left if in the back of the work shop for months untouched, and worse the chassis complete was left uncovered in the open, rain, snow the lot. I could not collect the car as it was all in bits. Things then started to get heated so they put the body (stripped bare of all paint) back on the chassis and I got it back. I treated and primed the exposed body, but with all the hassle decided to sell the car – the '49 was then on the horizon, my soon to be No1 VW – of course now there's Rattletrap pushing for the No1 VW slot too.

Fred Metson acquired MRT and had the whole thing re-done. To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like Rattletrap has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '49Cool

Any car that's needed painting or anything else since, I have done myself – its the only way to goWink

Edited by user 27 January 2010 20:29:02(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
GKL 7 Offline
#12 Posted : 27 January 2010 20:36:17(UTC)
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Standard split wrote:
Too keen to have the car in fact – they wanted to keep it.


WHAT!!!
Got to here this....tell me more......what was their arguement for this way of thinking?
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#13 Posted : 27 January 2010 21:18:20(UTC)
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'50 Karmann wrote:


WHAT!!!
Got to here this....tell me more......what was their arguement for this way of thinking?


Not saying too much… don't want to be sued Exclamation



Edited by user 28 January 2010 20:11:45(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
Rod_vw Offline
#14 Posted : 30 January 2010 21:23:59(UTC)
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Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972.
Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010?

Rod

Edited by user 30 January 2010 21:26:33(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

55Kab Offline
#15 Posted : 31 January 2010 14:13:12(UTC)
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Standard split wrote:
To me it could never be a match to the low mileage one-owner '49 – but MRT like Rattletrap has a fascinating history, although neither of them have originality to touch the '49Cool


That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49.

In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example.

If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless!

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#16 Posted : 31 January 2010 21:50:19(UTC)
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Rod_vw wrote:
Not an answer to the question but I can confirm seeing this car at the VW Convention at Stafford Showground, Staffordshire, England in 1971 and or 1972.
Even back then the car was owned by an enthusiast who enjoyed presenting it for others to see. That same gentleman still frequents VW shows in the UK, maybe I will se him again at Stanford Hall 2010?

Rod


Hi Rod!

Welcome to the forum ('bout time too!!!)

I've spoken to the son of this gentleman on several occasions. He is also into his VWs and has a nice VW Bus.

Rich.
47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
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#17 Posted : 01 February 2010 09:52:48(UTC)
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55Kab wrote:


That depends on your point of view. For my money, the provenance of MRT 308 makes it worth more than a low milage one owner 49.

In monetary terms this happens all the time with certain antiques, even cars owned by famous people. The Lady Diana Spencer owned Range Rover is one good example.

If MRT really is the first Beetle "offically" built for the UK then in terms of UK VW history it's priceless!



The first 'official' imports were the batch of 945 units imported by VW GB in 1953.

Alas, MRT 308 was not part of that first batch, so although arriving here new – it being the first new RHD VW here has never been disputed – it was not an 'official' import. I guess that the first one of the 1953 945 VW GB batch to be loaded onto the dock would be the first 'official car', and probably an oval too, I think that official imports began in June 1953 the oval era.OhMyGod

MRT 308 was first registered on German plates prior to being driven over to England, so some fair 'delivery' miles on the clock.

Rattletrap has more provinence than MRT – the story is more fascinating – I've owned both cars, so know both very well, their history and documentation – and feel Rattletrap clinches it Cool

As far as comparing these two cars with my '49, Rattletrap is at the opposite end of the originality spectrum of my '49 – but it's the story that makes it a fascinating collector's piece. MRT is fairly original, much more so than Rattletrap – but not anywhere near to the '49. Rattletrap may well even be worth more than the '49 to some collectors. I think I know which would be more of an attraction at a regular vintage car show or VW meet – Rattletrap – people love a car with a story to tellWink

Edited by user 01 February 2010 10:10:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
55Kab Offline
#18 Posted : 01 February 2010 18:14:34(UTC)
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Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle.

However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is?

BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know?

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#19 Posted : 01 February 2010 18:50:33(UTC)
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55Kab wrote:
Agree totally John. Rattletrap has a provenance that is hard to beat by ANY Beetle.

However, imagine finding the first official RHD Beetle registered in the UK - how fantastic that would be. I guess not much of a story but because of the significance it worth a fair amount to certain collectors, maybe even VAG UK. Wonder what it was and where it is?

BTW - when was the first official RHD UK Type 2 imported? Anyone know?



You're spot on with both points, no doubt about itBeer

MRT was more or less a private order from a worker within the VW factory for a relative in Suffolk, England. I had the exact history, eventually after years of effort. The VW employee who ordered the car was a Rudolf Mez. I traced him to Canada back in 1979, where he had retired. He was a great guy and sent me everything he had and knew about MRT – but MRT is not official, although still believed to be the first new RHD VW to arrive here. As for Rattletrap's value, I wouldn't swap 'him' for most anything, may well be the most interesting car I have, there's more to old cars than year and originality – provenance, story and historyRattletrap has it Cool

Edited by user 01 February 2010 18:52:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
BigGrin

The great Rattletrap debate: http://forums.pre67vw.co...aspx?g=posts&t=16378
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#20 Posted : 01 February 2010 21:43:29(UTC)
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Superb to find out all the history. I'll have to get to work tracing the history of my car...
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