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pre67vw Offline
#161 Posted : 11 March 2011 14:47:52(UTC)
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Rattletrap wrote:
I do. One's the incredibly historic KdF Wagen still in production, the other isn't. ThumpUp


I don't agree with that at all. The KdF ended in 1945.
Rob Amos

Happiness is a stock VW
Rattletrap Offline
#162 Posted : 11 March 2011 15:21:45(UTC)
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pre67vw wrote:
I don't agree with that at all. The KdF ended in 1945.

Yes you're right, too literal.

I really mean that the Standard is the direct descendant of the KdF Wagen. Wink
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48REME Offline
#163 Posted : 11 March 2011 15:23:03(UTC)
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I don't think that by the late 60s and early 70s, VW had kept to the old Standard-model codes to describe the basic 1200s. That's why I would put the 1966 sunroof posted earlier in the Standard category as it was still a type 115 in the company's view and categorisation of the model, like you say Rob, an updated and 'improved' model VW wanted to offer, against the archaic technology available on previous models with the same name tag. A 1200 is not a Standard but it inherits some of the cheap basic spirit which Standards once offered before them. Anything three-spoked is fine by me and the more basic and KDF-like the better! That's why I haven't driven a synchromesh beetle since 1993!Raspberry
Rattletrap Offline
#164 Posted : 11 March 2011 15:25:47(UTC)
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48REME wrote:
Anything three-spoked is fine by me and the more basic and KDF-like the better!

X2 Beer

Black 3-spoke for me though Nicolas. BigGrin
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48REME Offline
#165 Posted : 11 March 2011 16:02:44(UTC)
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Rattletrap wrote:
X2 Beer

Black 3-spoke for me though Nicolas. BigGrin


Preferably!Beer
65std Offline
#166 Posted : 15 March 2011 05:33:40(UTC)
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Well I'm new to this forum so bear with me. IMO the 65 111-112-115-116 are really the last of the of the standard ( BTW those designations above also apply to Canadian 1200 custom as well as vehicles built from 65 on ) model. The reason I say 65 is because the engine is the last of the old Franz Reimspiess design from the beginning (cast in generator stand 30hp (36 SAE hp) and the pan has the old stud-clamp-wing nut seat hold down plus the old pan dimples for the floormats to snap over. I have several books that say that VW created the name change to 1200A in 1965. My understanding is the 1200A designation came about to differentiate a standard from deluxe which was also known as just a 1200. My books say cable brakes went away after April 1962.
By 1965 a 1200A could be ordered with several trim levels. The basic car came with painted bumpers (euro-blade) painted hub caps, door handles (inside & out), deck lid handle, driver mirror (might be a option), ft. hood (bonnet) handle, and painted headlamp ring. I have seen pictures (factory) of 1200A's with added body side molding painted. The same year you could have ordered your car with chrome euro blade bumpers. The 1200 Custom ( Canadian ), has all the items above, but were chrome, except the inside door handles and the rear deck lid push button handle, but they used the 1956-1959 deluxe steering wheel and the deluxe export chrome rim headlamps plus the export deluxe chrome bumpers (to meet U.S. & Canadian bumper height requirement).
I have owned my 1965 111 since 1968. I knew the original owner. This guy ordered the car from one of our local dealers here in Southern California and picked it up in January 1965 at Wolfsburg and toured Europe for a month before bringing it back. My car is built almost like a Canadian 1200 Custom. The exceptions are Kilometer speedometer, amber rear turn signal lamps, no crankcase emission devise, windscreen glass (which along with amber turn ,signal, speedometer,) were changed before leaving U.S. customs. The owner gave me the parts to put back on. My car has the tunnel type transaxle, but it's final drive is like all the old 30 hp (36hp SAE)cars at 4.43:1 instead of the 1965 113's 4.375:1
BTW that paint color for the bumpers, brackets, door handles ect. is L-328 steel gray. My 30hp (36SAE) engine uses the 34hp (40hp) fresh air heater & exhaust system. The heads have spacers to make the length the same as the 40hp head. Some of the engine tin is unique to this engine only and the intake is different because the heat riser tubes are longer to fit the muffler. I love the no gas gauge and the reserve tap on the new type tank!

Don
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#167 Posted : 15 March 2011 09:35:22(UTC)
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65std wrote:
… IMO the 65 111-112-115-116 are really the last of the of the standard ( BTW those designations above also apply to Canadian 1200 custom as well as vehicles built from 65 on ) model.…

We differ on the subject by about a year – I consider that the Standard finished in 1963, and you think 1964. I suppose to a point, in my mind is that the more modern looking cars late '64 on with their larger all-round glass area really just don't look the part, although this has no bearing on the model type change.Confused

The chrome bumper argument is complicated by the fact that prior to the Deluxe arriving in 1949, the People's Car came with chrome bumpers too for different markets.Wink

Edited by user 15 March 2011 09:36:13(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
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#168 Posted : 15 March 2011 14:44:16(UTC)
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This is an interesting late model 'base' on EBay, this is the type I had several years ago, not even a glove box lid.Smile

An interesting project, albeit a 'crusty' one.

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eB...032090959#ht_7556wt_1141

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Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet OMG
Running nifty since 1950… the King of VolkswagensBeer Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook!
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48REME Offline
#169 Posted : 15 March 2011 15:42:03(UTC)
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65std wrote:
painted headlamp ring.

Are you sure about this?Sneaky Painted headlamp rings disappeared in mid-1949 when the gloss painted finish was introduced for Standard models. A lot of post mid-49 Standard split and Standard oval owners make the mistake of painting their headlamp rings in the same colour as the body of their car. I agree that it looks very nice and older but it's definitely wrong, which is why I don't see why VW would have started the painted ring 15 years later again when anyway, Standards were fading fast from the range catalogue, due to lack of public interest and the last thing they would do is invest in optional extras for an increasingly unpopular model.

Edited by user 15 March 2011 16:23:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

65std Offline
#170 Posted : 15 March 2011 18:10:49(UTC)
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48REME wrote:
Are you sure about this?Sneaky Painted headlamp rings disappeared in mid-1949 when the gloss painted finish was introduced for Standard models. A lot of post mid-49 Standard split and Standard oval owners make the mistake of painting their headlamp rings in the same colour as the body of their car. I agree that it looks very nice and older but it's definitely wrong, which is why I don't see why VW would have started the painted ring 15 years later again when anyway, Standards were fading fast from the range catalogue, due to lack of public interest and the last thing they would do is invest in optional extras for an increasingly unpopular model.


Well yes/no?, The picture is a factory photo of a 62 111 and not only is the headlamp ring painted, but the body side molding is painted too. BTW on the samba literature section under 1965 there is a picture of a 1200 custom, it's under the English section titled Canadian section-Full line. The picture is incorrect for a number of reasons; 1. it shows a full headliner and all 111's have a 3/4. 2. it shows chrome ft. turn signal housings- all 111's have body colour ones. 3. The vent wing post is anodized silver- 111's are body colour. 4. The lic. plate is the new type- 111's have the old 63 style. 5. This car shows a white interior- all L-360 Sea Blau interiors were gray the exception would be the driver only visor and 3/4 headliner in
white. So I do know of factory screw ups with photos, and every manufacturer has this problem. I forgot to mention that all Canadian 1200 Customs have the fake rt. side horn grille.
Being a person who likes to go by the book I say that if VW called it's 111 model a 1200A after 1964 model than that is what it is, and if they choose to call the Canadian 111 model a 1200 Custom the that is what it is. People still call my 1200A a Standard and that is OK with me. The important thing is that it is a 111.
This name change is nothing new in the automotive world. A 57 Chevy 110 model becomes the DelRay in 1958. A 57 Chevy 210 model becomes the Biscayne in 1958.
The important thing to remember is the name changed, but the body style # did not.

Don

Edited by user 15 March 2011 18:44:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

losthillsguy Offline
#171 Posted : 17 March 2011 00:36:02(UTC)
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1966 Type1 - Standards, Deluxes, Convertibles

I believe in hard evidence BigGrin


Brian O'Kelly
California, USA
Central Coast Chapter, CA Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
65std Offline
#172 Posted : 17 March 2011 05:37:36(UTC)
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losthillsguy wrote:
1966 Type1 - Standards, Deluxes, Convertibles

I believe in hard evidence BigGrin




Hey Brian, Thanks for posting, I have that list for 1966 too. That is not a official VW document though. Vogler & Trummer is most likely a dealer. I do have a VW picture of 1966 German models and at the top of the list is the VW1200A for 4,485DM. Right next to it on the rt. is the VW1500A (former standard variant). Next time you come over to my house remind me to show you, or remind me to bring it to Cider Creek this Saturday.

Don

Edited by user 17 March 2011 17:14:30(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

48REME Offline
#173 Posted : 17 March 2011 15:36:51(UTC)
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65std wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well yes/no?, The picture is a factory photo of a 62 111

Sorry, what photo?
65std Offline
#174 Posted : 17 March 2011 17:34:44(UTC)
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48REME wrote:
Sorry, what photo?


Sorry, it is in a old book called the VW Technical Manual by Henry Elfrink. The book is what I call one of the must have books. Most VW technical books (exception would be factory) shy away from building and setting up a transaxle split case crash box-split case 2-4 and syncro/tunnel type plus other types of jobs not covered by some manuals. Elfrink's book goes into details on not only the technical aspect but model # ect. When I bought my 65 1200A (standard) or (base model)in 1968 I would go to my dealer for parts and I would come away with the wrong parts especially engine parts. My brother-in-law gave me the book and it opened my eyes to the real world of VW. I always knew my car was different than the U.S. type 113 that I was used to, but this book showed the way for me. Really opened up the different models of the type one. The bad part about the book is it's been out of print for decades.
This was the book I took to the dealer when I needed parts. Before I did this the VW parts man would come out and look at my car's engine and say " someone must have modified your car " " a 28PCI on a 65?? NEVER!! a 36hp (SAE)--Never! It wasn't until afer I became a VW Tech working at a dealer that I ran into some old Tech's from the old country that would say "OH you have a standard"!
Don

Edited by user 17 March 2011 17:49:43(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rattletrap Offline
#175 Posted : 17 March 2011 17:49:31(UTC)
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losthillsguy wrote:
1966 Type1 - Standards, Deluxes, Convertibles

I believe in hard evidence BigGrin

A dealer's poster is not official and so not hard evidence.

My view on the last year of the real Standard model remains the same – 1963.

People need hard evidence from Volkswagen themselves to prove their car is something other than what it appears.Mellow

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losthillsguy Offline
#176 Posted : 17 March 2011 18:03:19(UTC)
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Rattletrap wrote:
A dealer's poster is not official and so not hard evidence.

My view on the last year of the real Standard model remains the same – 1963.

People need hard evidence from Volkswagen themselves to prove their car is something other than what it appears.Mellow



Touche! But I wonder where they got their info. Doesn't really matter as you say, it's what VW says that counts.

Question: What is a model 115 Question

Find any words on the following document (official as it gets) to describe anything other than a model 115.

That's my hard evidence ThumpUp

I accept anything that says models 111,112,115 or 116 ended production in 1963

Brian O'Kelly
California, USA
Central Coast Chapter, CA Vintage Volkswagen Club of America
65std Offline
#177 Posted : 17 March 2011 18:07:44(UTC)
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http://www.thesamba.com/...t/66tenmillion/page8.jpg
This is from VW. It was two items below Brians copy on the Samba. Too bad there isn't one from 65, but for sure the factory called a 111 in 1966 a 1200A

Don

Edited by user 17 March 2011 18:10:38(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

losthillsguy Offline
#178 Posted : 17 March 2011 18:11:01(UTC)
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65std wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/66tenmillion/page8.jpg
This is from VW. It was two items below Brians copy.

Don


Don't confuse advertising terms with models Smile
Brian O'Kelly
California, USA
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Rattletrap Offline
#179 Posted : 17 March 2011 18:16:41(UTC)
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Interesting to note that the 1200A (not a Standard) has the earlier license light lamp on the back as opposed to the 1300's (not really a Deluxe either) new style light.Mellow

Edited by user 17 March 2011 18:18:10(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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48REME Offline
#180 Posted : 17 March 2011 20:26:40(UTC)
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65std wrote:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/66tenmillion/page8.jpg
This is from VW. It was two items below Brians copy on the Samba. Too bad there isn't one from 65, but for sure the factory called a 111 in 1966 a 1200A

Don

Well there we have it then. The official terms for Standards (111, etc...) seemed to have ended for models introduced in late 1966.
So maybe 1965-66 is indeed the cut-off date year and Brian's model is one of the last models which can officially be called a Standard. It would make sense since Brian's type 115 still has older domed hubcaps and not the flat ones introduced for the new 1200A models of late 1966 as shown on that colour chart, yet again a progressive move from the earlier features sported by the now defunct Standard model.Smile

Edited by user 17 March 2011 20:27:49(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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