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  • pre67vw Junkie
11 years ago
An intresrting thread i just think it boils down to greed. Speculators after making a fast buck which worked and the prices got pushed up to artificial highs making some of the cars unobtanable for the true enthusiasts and not the trend setters ( who ever thay are )But it looks like the prices have topped out and so a lot of people are left with cars that thay gave a lot of money for now cannot sell them. There are still the very top cars that will still be sort after and some of the rare ones have had a lot thrown at them and so now pass in to the top cars. This happend in the classic car movement in the 80s when lots of people got ther hands burnt even on the high end market. Just my thorghts on the subject. Some of you may think i am way off the mark with my thourghts and if so then it would be intresting to se what you think about it :wink:




Andy W
GKL 7
11 years ago
Andy
There is some very big money in this hobby now.
Individuals who are not speculating,what they could make on these cars,would'nt even add up to pocket money for them.We are talking Billions,not millions of ££££'s
Because these people are about,others have seen a gateway into making money by finding and selling these cars to them.
And i don't think you'll see these cars come back on the market for a very,very long time and then they won't be advertised.It will go by word of mouth,for example i think most Hebmullers are sold this way anyway.
I don't think it's greed with these people,i think they have a genuine fondness for Volkswagens,their collections often include cars(non vw) that make even a Hebmuller look cheap.
These people are no less car enthusiasts than you or i.

I know there are exceptions.
But don't forget as long as they stay within reality,those big players are there to step in.

For your average car tho' yes people will get burnt.
pre67vw
11 years ago

I agree. Take into account all the hard work and effort required, plus the expense and it'd be wiser to purchase a good original car. Because at the end of it all the restored car will be just that - a restored car. £5-£8k should still secure a really original and excellent Oval.

Old Blue wrote:



Doesn't anyone work on their own car anymore? New framehead, replace the dash - cheap(ish) Oval for messing around in, get it on the road for £3k and have some fun.

I agree that a nice original car is worth more, but it's not all about the end value surely?
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
GKL 7
11 years ago


but it's not all about the end value surely?

pre67vw wrote:




For a true,true lover.I suppose the value shouldn't come into it at all.
I think we are all probably stinging a little,because the days of BIG fun for little money have gone.
But i've heard many people in years gone by saying they couldn't understand why Volkswagens didn't command the prices of other marques.Now they do.

We can't have it both ways.




pre67vw
11 years ago
VW's are the bottom end of the collector cars, top end are the Ferrari 250 GTO's that sell for millions - and there are a load of 'classic' cars below the VW that collectors just aren't interested in. Collectors bring big money to the hobby, it's not a case of greed on the part of the collector - they just have significantly more disposable income to throw at a car.

When it comes to campers and buses then I do think there's a lot of people who are/were hoping to make a fast buck - and they probably did for some time before the economy went south. For £8k you can buy a nice solid and original Oval, but try buying a bus for that sort of money and you're in project territory.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
pre67vw
11 years ago


Also, I think that it is a shame that the fruits of Last Triumph's fascinating recommissioning of his Oval has now seen the car back up for sale so quickly. I really think that cars that change hands too often lose some of their mystique, and consequently some of their collector appeal.

Old Blue wrote:



Is it just me or does this seem quite a rude thing to say directly to the person selling it?

I dislike people 'flipping' cars, especially when they have bought the car under false pretences - but George has had the car a while now, driven it to shows etc and had some fun with it, he's hardly flipping the car is he.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
+1
GKL 7
11 years ago

VW's are the bottom end of the collector cars, top end are the Ferrari 250 GTO's that sell for millions - and there are a load of 'classic' cars below the VW that collectors just aren't interested in. Collectors bring big money to the hobby, it's not a case of greed on the part of the collector - they just have significantly more disposable income to throw at a car.

When it comes to campers and buses then I do think there's a lot of people who are/were hoping to make a fast buck - and they probably did for some time before the economy went south. For £8k you can buy a nice solid and original Oval, but try buying a bus for that sort of money and you're in project territory.

pre67vw wrote:





:thumbup:

I think our hobby is split into two sections.

Hebmuller,D&S,Romy,top end Splits cannot be classed as bottom end collectors cars.

Everythig else,yeah! bottom end just above pushbikes:wink:

I've noticed buses are dropping.
pre67vw
11 years ago

:thumbup:
Hebmuller,D&S,Romy,top end Splits cannot be classed as bottom end collectors cars.

GKL 7 wrote:



How many Hebs can you buy for the price of a £12m Ferrari? They're the top end of the VW hobby for sure, but price wise to a collector...
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
GKL 7
11 years ago
Didn't say they were top end Rob,they are just not bottom end.


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1403528 

This to me is worth more than a £12m Ferrari.(if you catch my drift)
But not everybody likes driving a cold, underbraked,under powered car.:d

But i cannot afford either,so i'll just have to keep driving a bottom end of the market car.
Thanks Rob,if you see a green Oval and the driver has a paper back over his head,you'll know what you've driven me to:cry: .The shame of it.
Sunroof53
11 years ago
For the VW enthusiast that just likes VWs for what they are ,money and profit making is rarely what it's about .Being passionate about these cars does make you irrational when it comes to money .i know of a few people that spend everything on there cars without regard for what they will sell it for .For them it's just about having the car they are passionate about .
.
I don't think it's always wealthy collectors pushing the prices up .There are plenty of ordinary folk stretching there bank balance to own there dream VW .

Unfortunately it's the people who have no desire or skills to restore one that pay the most initially but even restoring an early car yourself has become costly with parts prices equally going through the roof .

There does seem to be a few ovals for sale at the moment but most are either projects or left hand drive so not really very important 😛 😛

Mike




Piet
  • Piet
  • pre67vw Junkie
11 years ago

For the VW enthusiast that just likes VWs for what they are ,money and profit making is rarely what it's about .Being passionate about these cars does make you irrational when it comes to money .i know of a few people that spend everything on there cars without regard for what they will sell it for .For them it's just about having the car they are passionate about .




Sunroof53 wrote:




Exactly my thoughts!
Just enjoy your passion but have to admit it wears out your wallet.:o
Proost! Peter.
1954 Oval L275 (in progressive refinement)
Old Blue
11 years ago

I've actually owned the car longer than LT.
I didn't see you bleeting and moaning when he sold it.

TOO Many Ovals? Simple,just leave it to the idiots who slam them and knock them to hell AHEM!!
They'll soon work their way through them.

GKL 7 wrote:


LT by his own omission is into the restoring or recommission work on cars. He does not collect as he does not have the space. He has a list of desireable cars that he wishes to acquire and work on, and so released his finished Oval to make way for his next project.

This is taken from the final page on his brilliant thread:
''In a nut shell, I need another project and am slowly working my way through my ambition 'must own one day' cars.

Porsche - tick
Countach - tick
Corvettes - tick
Marcos - tick
All og Oval - tick
Split Bus..... not yet
Mid engined V8 1303 - not yet
Hot Rod... not yet

You can see where this is heading....

However - I have a single garage and one car always has to fund another one...

Dunno - every time I open the garage door I just smile and fall in love, but I've run out of things to do on it - it's finished.''

You are a life long VW enthusiast as I am, and I imagine love to own various VWs to enjoy the experience of each. Like most of us you probably do not have the space, or possibly finances, to keep them all, so sell for the next VW experience. Rob (pre67) implied here that I may think that you are flipping cars for money. Well, he's wrong and impolite to make such an assumption. That thought never even occured to me, though his comment may have now placed that thought into the mind of people viewing this thread, and possibly someone interested in your Oval.

My point was that cars that frequently change hands become less attractive to some of the more hard-core collectors. If you viewed a vintage VW offered for sale that had had 3 three owners in as many years, it may put you off buying.

Regarding your dig at our Oval (AHEM), that is out-of-place here, as it was my son's decision, (he's not an idiot), against my wishes to lower the '56. However, no permanent harm is done to the Oval which could go back to stock if required, and may well yet do.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
Old Blue
11 years ago

Is it just me or does this seem quite a rude thing to say directly to the person selling it?

I dislike people 'flipping' cars, especially when they have bought the car under false pretences - but George has had the car a while now, driven it to shows etc and had some fun with it, he's hardly flipping the car is he.

pre67vw wrote:


You are wrong. I never thought he was into VWs for money, and impolite to assume I did. I know from following these forums for some years that he has owned some very desireable cars - including a 1947 split.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
Old Blue
11 years ago

An intresrting thread i just think it boils down to greed. Speculators after making a fast buck which worked and the prices got pushed up to artificial highs making some of the cars unobtanable for the true enthusiasts and not the trend setters ( who ever thay are )But it looks like the prices have topped out and so a lot of people are left with cars that thay gave a lot of money for now cannot sell them. There are still the very top cars that will still be sort after and some of the rare ones have had a lot thrown at them and so now pass in to the top cars. This happend in the classic car movement in the 80s when lots of people got ther hands burnt even on the high end market. Just my thorghts on the subject. Some of you may think i am way off the mark with my thourghts and if so then it would be intresting to se what you think about it :wink:
Andy W

AW wrote:


I do not think that it is all down to greed or making a 'fast buck'. There are some real VW lovers and fanatics that would almost bankrupt themselves to acquire that rare dream vintage VW. Such cars will continue to increase in value, no doubt at all.

The VW Type ll bus/transporters have become victims of the money making and lowering fraternity. They are not particularly rare, desireable and dare I say, well made. Asking prices of £30k for a rusty shed on modern wheels are crazy and will very soon come down like a lead balloon, unlike Split Window Beetles, early Karmanns and Hebmullers which will continue upwards like a helium one, though I think the Heb and Karmann balloon could be reaching bursting point.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
GKL 7
11 years ago


Regarding your dig at our Oval (AHEM), that is out-of-place here, as it was my son's decision, (he's not an idiot), against my wishes to lower the '56. However, no permanent harm is done to the Oval which could go back to stock if required, and may well yet do.

Old Blue wrote:



That wasn't a dig,it was an observation.

You asked your son to stop posting here because of his stupid remarks.What other conclusion would you have me come to, other than the one i have.

It is no more out of place here than your comments about me selling my car.
While you deny it now,i am not the only person here to see them for how they were actually meant.

And finally you have mentioned on these very forums how the under side of your '56 had become damaged and you would have to try and repair it.
Now you say, it may go back to stock.Why?Because you think that's what we want to here,that's why.
Is it your car or your sons car,you claim it on your signature.
Old Blue
11 years ago

That wasn't a dig,it was an observation.

You asked your son to stop posting here because of his stupid remarks.What other conclusion would you have me come to, other than the one i have.

It is no more out of place here than your comments about me selling my car.
While you deny it now,i am not the only person here to see them for how they were actually meant.

And finally you have mentioned on these very forums how the under side of your '56 had become damaged and you would have to try and repair it.
Now you say, it may go back to stock.Why?Because you think that's what we want to here,that's why.
Is it your car or your sons car,you claim it on your signature.

GKL 7 wrote:


Firstly, it seems by some of the comments earlier, that one or two have found this thread that I started interesting. Now you seem intent in making it a battle ground. You overlook that it was the site's administrator who introduced the term 'flipping' here, something that you choose to ignore. Although you have 'thanked him', so I guess you are good friends.

I did not consider you were buying to sell for money as I explained earlier, but you choose to cast-aside my explanation. Furthermore, Jon does not post here because his youthful approach to vintage VWs does not fit in with the stock ethos of this site. He wishes to enjoy the Oval with his friends, and if the car brings pleasure then it has justified its continued existence. Do you consider all youngsters who modify their Beetles idiots?

The vehicles listed in my signature are used within my immediate family and live on the same property. The MG is my driver and Old Blue the Beetle is a family treasure that I drive for pleasure. Jon drives the Oval and my wife the Morris or the Mini, and lucky me gets to pay for all of the cars. Old Blue is a perfect example of long-term ownership having been in the family since new. It would be a shame if it eventually had to be sold and ended up changing hands within the one-year ownership brigade. It would however, be likely to keep its low value year suffix number plate for life, unlike your Oval which looks certain to lose the personal plate you have affixed to it, so inflicting a further assault on the car's history.

It is certainly of note that the very best vintage VWs seem to stay with their owners for many years or even decades never being advertised for sale but eventually changing hands behind the scenes.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
GKL 7
11 years ago
The plate is mine,it is my initials.
I bought the car without it,i will sell it without it.My business.
It has only been on the car 18 months,so history doesn't come into it
It bares very little interest to any one else as they don't have those initials.

So it's OK to lower a car,but not take the number plate off?


And as for every thing else about the car....
Keep your prying nose out.The car didn't need to be mentioned in this thread,you were the person that started the "dig".Don't expect me to sit here and take it.

Now you're saying, you are in the right because Rob is just sticking up for me,what a very very sad character you are.
six-o-one
11 years ago
Classic cars of any make represent an investment these days. They are far more fun than leaving your money sitting in a savings account gaining little interest but, as with most investments, there may come a time when you need to 'cash-in' your investment due to the changes in life that most of us face.

Relationships, careers, families etc. all make us way-up our priorities when we need to find some cash and, often it's classic cars, which sit in the garage most of the time that have to go. I guess it's the younger owners that this effects the most. We are in a recession at the moment so it's understandable that there are a lot of classic cars for sale, especially the cheaper ones.
Lavenham Vintage VW Show - 2012 
Bandwagen | Vintage Volkswagens & Photography 
+1
Old Blue
11 years ago

Now you're saying, you are in the right because Rob is just sticking up for me,what a very very sad character you are.

GKL 7 wrote:


An end to this infantile nonsense please.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
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