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Grifflad
15 years ago
Hi all,

Just looking for advice on the fitting of 3 point belts (front & rear) into my 1959 standard beetle. As far as I can see I need to get plates with the correct thread size welded into the door pillar and the rear panel behind the rear window as the car doesn't have any bolt holes at these points.

I've got a couple of questions based on this:

1. Does this mean that the car should have the correct bolt holes for 2 point belts already? I can't find any. Pointers as to their location would be great.

2. If they do exist do I need thread adapters to take the thread from 22mm to 7/8's?

3. I can't currently weld. Can anyone recommend a reputable garage in Southern England that will do the necessary welding (I'd prefer to take it to somewhere that have done similar work before)?

4. If anyone has done this job before on a similar car any pictures would be gratefully received :)

thanks in advance,
Gareth
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GKL 7
15 years ago
😳 Don't do it
Grifflad
15 years ago
Why not?

I know it's not with the keeping of the car but I've got a new family and it's our daily driver. I've been quite happy to run about with just me in it without seat belts but my situation has changed.

Just to clarify I'm not going to fit them myself.

cheers,
Gareth
GKL 7
15 years ago

Why not?

Grifflad wrote:



Drilling holes,welding in plates,repainting etc.
Not a simple fix.OK if you want to sacrifice the originality of your car.
And much as it pains me to say it,not the safest of cars to drive your new family around in.
It's only my opinion.Others will no doubt disagree.
Grifflad
15 years ago
Hi,

Thanks for the reply. All points taken, I'm just loathe to have to sell the car. I've owned it 8 years and it's by no means concours by any stretch of the imagination but I love it. If I'm going to do it I want it done as well as possible.

Thanks for you comments/opinions they are valid and have given me something to consider.

regards,
Grifflad
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago
You can have race style harnesses bolted through between the rear seat base and back, and through the floorpan without welding, but then your backseat space will be gone, which probably defeats what you were after in the first place.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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harveypj
15 years ago
https://www.quickfitsbs.com/ 
Having 2 youngsters myself I have also got a simlar dilema with my 58.
I found this company, they can custom build/fit seat belts/harnesses to suit all ages of car. A work colleauge is into classic Rovers (:roll: I know)and tells me several of his clubs members have used them and have been happy with the results.
Stock......the new custom
tman
  • tman
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago

https://www.quickfitsbs.com/ 

harveypj wrote:


Fixed link :d
Andrew
195x Deluxe oval Beetle
Binz Doublecab
dp
  • dp
  • Regular
15 years ago



Drilling holes,welding in plates,repainting etc.
Not a simple fix.OK if you want to sacrifice the originality of your car.
And much as it pains me to say it,not the safest of cars to drive your new family around in.
It's only my opinion.Others will no doubt disagree.

'50 Karmann wrote:



In my opinion, seatbelts are an essential safety feature for any age of car and do not distract from the originality (even concours judges wouldn’t (usually) mark a car down for having seatbelts fitted if done well in a sympathetic manner). If you want to drive with children in a car, it’s the law in the UK to have them appropriately restrained irrespective of the age of the vehicle. Please do as you feel you need to - the safety of you and your family is paramount (but note that collapsible steering columns, padded steering wheels and dashes, airbags etc. etc. do not fall into this category :wink: ).


You can have race style harnesses bolted through between the rear seat base and back, and through the floorpan without welding, but then your backseat space will be gone, which probably defeats what you were after in the first place.

JD wrote:



There are 2 main problems if you use a racing harness without a roll cage (and I’m not suggesting you fit one):
1. the shoulder belts should come off the back of the rear seat at no more of an angle than 20 degrees from horizontal (otherwise you run the risk of spinal compression in a crash)
2. If you roll the car and the roof comes in on you you will be stuck (and squashed) in the seat - with a normal three point belt you would (most likely) slip to one side.

Hope this helps.
Standard split
15 years ago

'Just looking for advice on the fitting of 3 point belts (front & rear) into my 1959 standard beetle.'



I hope that it is not an actual Standard Model 😳

Seatbelts ruin a vintage car:!: Get a Euro Box, don't butcher a car that's survived 50 years. One day someone will be cursing you as they try to rid the car of the rotten things:evil:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
harveypj
15 years ago

Seatbelts ruin a vintage car:!:

Standard split wrote:



Yeh, but going through the windscreen does'nt do much for the ocupants either:cry:

Stock......the new custom
Standard split
15 years ago

Yeh, but going through the windscreen does'nt do much for the ocupants either



Well Harvey, if safety is such a concern to you, get a real safe modern car. As much as we all love our vintage VWs, an ancient car is not the thing to be in with your wife and kids if you're really hung-up on safety and planning on driving any distance:!:

I don't fancy driving around in a Type II because I just don't see much between my legs and an on-coming car, other that a single sheet of metal, yet people fit seat belts in them to be safe:!:

These classic VWs are great, they are valuable collector's items – just that, not to be ruined with seat belts. In a collision, they have no chance against a big 4x4 or most modern cars in fact. I'm sure the government think just that, and probably why it's not been made compulsory to fit seat belts in ancient cars of which there is also no proper mountings. They rely on people using common sense[-x
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
harveypj
15 years ago


Well Harvey, if safety is such a concern to you, get a real safe modern car. As much as we all love our vintage VWs, an ancient car is not the thing to be in with your wife and kids if you're really hung-up on safety and planning on driving any distance:!:

I don't fancy driving around in a Type II because I just don't see much between my legs and an on-coming car, other that a single sheet of metal, yet people fit seat belts in them to be safe:!:

These classic VWs are great, they are valuable collector's items – just that, not to be ruined with seat belts. In a collision, they have no chance against a big 4x4 or most modern cars in fact. I'm sure the government think just that, and probably why it's not been made compulsory to fit seat belts in ancient cars of which there is also no proper mountings. They rely on people using common sense[-x

Standard split wrote:




Whats with all the :!: :!: ........chill out dude,

I agree, having a vintage VW as a daily is probably not the safest choice and one I'd not entertain (personaly).
We are fortunate and also have 2 modern cars, you've got to appreciate that not every one's personal cercumstances are the same, and as you quite correctly point out we all love our vintage VW's.
My Wife and particularly my 2 kids love our Bug so why should they not enjoy the ride too?[-x
The addition of correctly designed/proffesionaly fitted seat belts can only make a car safer. that is common sense, and I'd even go as far as saying 'fact'.

Rightly or wrongly I have so far not fitted belts to my 58 (I like original, have considered my driving record/ annual bug millage etc etc) but can appreciate other peoples considerations will be different.




:shock: 'Government....common sense...in the same sentance:? :lol:





Stock......the new custom
GKL 7
15 years ago


I like original

harveypj wrote:




Yeah!Didn't stop you from repainting it 'tho, did it.:lol: :!: :lol: :!: :lol: :!: :lol:




















Couldn't resist that one.:wink:
harveypj
15 years ago


Got rid of the rust though :wink:
Stock......the new custom
dp
  • dp
  • Regular
15 years ago

I don't fancy driving around in a Type II because I just don't see much between my legs and an on-coming car, other that a single sheet of metal, yet people fit seat belts in them to be safe:!:

Standard split wrote:



I accept that if I have a head on collision in my type 2, I may never walk again - wearing a seatbelt should hopefully mean I'm alive though.

These classic VWs are great, they are valuable collector's items – just that, not to be ruined with seat belts. In a collision, they have no chance against a big 4x4 or most modern cars in fact. I'm sure the government think just that, and probably why it's not been made compulsory to fit seat belts in ancient cars of which there is also no proper mountings. They rely on people using common sense[-x

Standard split wrote:



The government don't generally have a habit of retrospectively applying rules for new cars to older cars, plain and simple - when they first made seat belts compulsory, those without them were not ancient. The law states that you can choose if you want to drive without seatbelts if they weren't originally fitted, but you can't make that decision for your children - this is because they (and you) are far safer wearing one. My life is more valuable than any collectors item.

Of course it's your choice at the end of the day, but when you're trying to convince someone else of the same choice, the other side of the argument needs to be heard.
Mike Peckham
15 years ago



The law states that you can choose if you want to drive without seatbelts if they weren't originally fitted, but you can't make that decision for your children - this is because they (and you) are far safer wearing one.

dp wrote:



Does this mean that legally speaking children are not permitted to travel in my 1957 beetle as it has no seat belts fitted? If that is the case, and I can understand the logic, it might be what sways me to fit them.

Mike
July 1957 UK supplied RHD Oval. 1972 World Champion Beetle. 1978 UK supplied RHD 1303LS Cabriolet. 1973 UK supplied RHD 1303s.
GKL 7
15 years ago


My life is more valuable than any collectors item.

dp wrote:



100% true.
Everybodys is.
And i do not blame you for wanting seat belts.
But i still maintain a 50+ year old beetle is not the place for your young family.
You need airbags,seatbelts, ABS and what ever else you can get.
Those children are priceless,your Volkswagen is not.

harveypj
15 years ago



But i still maintain a 50+ year old beetle is not the place for your young family.

'50 Karmann wrote:



Have to agree realy George.

It's always the good things that are bad for you:( . A bit like eating choclate:d . Everything in moderation I say. The odd show can't do much harm in the overall scheme of things.
Stock......the new custom
dp
  • dp
  • Regular
15 years ago


Does this mean that legally speaking children are not permitted to travel in my 1957 beetle as it has no seat belts fitted? If that is the case, and I can understand the logic, it might be what sways me to fit them.

Mike

Mike Peckham wrote:



It all depends how old (or tall) they are and where you want them to sit. Check here for the exact details: https://www.childcarseats.org.uk/law/index.htm#kids311 


But i still maintain a 50+ year old beetle is not the place for your young family.

'50 Karmann wrote:



You're probably right - my kids will most likely be grown up by the time I get the car back on the road anyway.

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