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54 Gertie
15 years ago
Hello there!

As some of you may know I recently bought an original pair of SWF slim indicators a few weeks ago, for my 63! The look identical to the similar aged Hella part on the outside, but inside they are completely different! :roll: :?

The Hella assemblies require a large hole drilled in the wing for the upright mounted bulb, with two smaller bolt holes either side to secure it down

My units have a horizontally mounted bulb, that does not require a hole to be drilled in the wing for. It seems that the only holes that they need is a bolt hole, and a hole for the positive feed. My problem with this way of fixing them on is that the only thing stopping them from turning on the spot is the wire. This im sure cannot be correct?:wink:

I cant believe that at factory they would have two different types of wings in manufacture, one for each type of indicator! :lol:

Can anyone suggest what is going on? Or what to do to fit them correctly? :?


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Cheers!8)
William
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54 Gertie
15 years ago
This picture shows the holes in the top of the wing for the Hella lights! Sorry it is so zoomed out but I stole the photo from Lenny Copp!:oops: :lol:


Sorry!:wink: In my defense, I now spend all my spare time looking through the pictures on the restorations page! :lol: :beer:


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William
RoRoVw
15 years ago
I had exactly the same problem with my '63.
I bought an NOS set of front indicators from a guy in Germany via The Samba. Mine are Hella and came in the original box all wrapped in tissue paper complete with fitting instructions. They are similar to your SWF units and have the horizontal type of bulb holder and same fixing to the wing. I puzzled over these for quite a while when it came time to fit them. It's obvious that when fitted there is very little to prevent the whole unit twisting on the surface of the wing. The instruction leaflet is dated November 1960 so I can only assume that this was the very first idea that VW had for fixing the indicators and when it became apparent in use that they moved about, they altered the fixing to the later style with a vertical bulb and large hole in the wing. It's interesting to hear that both SWF and Hella were using this fixing style and that one wasn't an alternative fixing.
My solution was to use the later, vertical bulb holder with the nice, new, shiny amber lenses and chrome tops and screws from the NOS set. It's worked very well.
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago
Doesn´t the bung part of the rubber base gasket thingy stop them turning? I had some like this and I don´t rmember it being a problem.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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RoRoVw
15 years ago

Doesn´t the bung part of the rubber base gasket thingy stop them turning? I had some like this and I don´t rmember it being a problem.

JD wrote:



Yes I think that's the idea but it's a fairly insignificant bung and with only one fixing bolt onto the wing it won't take much to allow the whole indicator unit to move about.
54 Gertie
15 years ago



Yes I think that's the idea but it's a fairly insignificant bung and with only one fixing bolt onto the wing it won't take much to allow the whole indicator unit to move about.

RoRoVw wrote:



Yes I agree!

There is nothing to stop the whole unit form turning!

I did have a theory that they the type fitted to USA bound cars from 58-60, but these had clear lenses and my orange ones are original!

Something else that has occured to me that VW used to offer a kit in the 60s to add slim indicators to your semaphore beetle. I suppose they may have designed it in a differnet way so that you did not have to drill so many hooes in your wings?
William
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago



Something else that has occured to me that VW used to offer a kit in the 60s to add slim indicators to your semaphore beetle. I suppose they may have designed it in a differnet way so that you did not have to drill so many hooes in your wings?

54 Gertie wrote:



Thats almost certainly true, I would think.
Not sure whats on my car, but its been converted. I´ll take a look sometime.

Can´t really see why they´d turn. You aren´t planning on swinging off them, or are you worried about the vast aerodynamic forces at work at 50+ miles an hour?:d
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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IN2VWS
15 years ago
Those lights were not only used for turn signals on Beetles. They were also used as brake lights for cars and trucks, as can be seen in this 1960's Hella catalog.

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'51 Typ 11C 
'59 Typ 114 
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'65 Typ 264 
'59 Messerschmitt 
1978 Ducati 
2008 Ducati 
RoRoVw
15 years ago
54 Gertie - Since you don't have indicator holes in your wings already I think I'd be inclined to go ahead and fit the SWF units as they were intednded and then see how they stand up to normal useage. At least you won't have to cut the huge hole in the wings that the later units require. If it turns out that they do move out of position then you'll still have the opportunity to find the vertical bulb holders and then cut the large holes to fit them. I didn't have that option since I already had the fitting holes in my wings.
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago
Or fit the indicators in the headlights - thats my plan.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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pre67vw
15 years ago

Or fit the indicators in the headlights - thats my plan.

JD wrote:



Ooh, very cal-look... :wink:
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
JD
  • JD
  • pre67vw Junkie
15 years ago



Ooh, very cal-look... :wink:

pre67vw wrote:



Oh. A-hardy-ha-ha Robert. :wink:

It looks more original than wingtop ones.
"John, you need to get a grip and STOP MOANING AT EVERYTHING. ThumbDown "
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54 Gertie
15 years ago

Or fit the indicators in the headlights - thats my plan.

JD wrote:



It has these at the moment and I have promised myself from the start of the project that the car is not finished until correct indicators are fitted! :wink:

Cheers for your help!:d
William
kdf38
15 years ago
<< double post >>
Mike
Mike
Texas
Nov. 1947 +
Febr 1949 shell
kdf38
15 years ago
If there is a problem with them moving, you could get some of removable glue/cement that is used to attach logos to cars now and put a spot or two on the rubber first.


Mike
Mike
Texas
Nov. 1947 +
Febr 1949 shell
harveypj
15 years ago

If there is a problem with them moving, you could get some of removable glue/cement that is used to attach logos to cars now and put a spot or two on the rubber first.
Mike

kdf38 wrote:



My thoughts exactly.

Stock......the new custom
54 Gertie
15 years ago

If there is a problem with them moving, you could get some of removable glue/cement that is used to attach logos to cars now and put a spot or two on the rubber first.


Mike

kdf38 wrote:



Yes, I agree! I have decided to fit them how I think best and see how well they stay put on their own! If they need any other attention I will sort it out...
:wink:

William
Rich Oakley
15 years ago
All factory-fitted European model indicators from August 1960 were Hella and with two threaded studs to mount to the wings. The bulb holders were always vertical. Hella and SWF both started producing these retro-fitable lamps (the type you have), mostly with horizontal bulb holders from 1960 onwards. They're very easy to find as NOS units compared to the 'proper' ones.
47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
54 Gertie
15 years ago

All factory-fitted European model indicators from August 1960 were Hella and with two threaded studs to mount to the wings. The bulb holders were always vertical. Hella and SWF both started producing these retro-fitable lamps (the type you have), mostly with horizontal bulb holders from 1960 onwards. They're very easy to find as NOS units compared to the 'proper' ones.

Rich Oakley wrote:



so when would these have been made? 60s?

Cheers!:d :d
William
Rich Oakley
15 years ago



so when would these have been made? 60s?

Cheers!:d :d

54 Gertie wrote:



Yes, 1960 onwards, and possibly as early as 1958/9. The horizontal bulb arrangement and single threaded stud allowed for the retro-fitting of this style of indicator to earlier (Split/Oval/late 50s) wings without drilling a big hole in the top of the wing to accept the vertical bulb holder. They are definitely 'aftermarket' parts.
47 Beetle, 56 UK Karmann Cabriolet, 56 UK Beetle, 57 UK Type 2, 59 UK Beetle, 66 UK Fastback.
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