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vintagebug
10 years ago

HELP No2:!:... But hang on- when i got home I thoght how so?- because Rattletrap is not yet insured. Surely you have to have insurance up front??

Originally Posted by: Rattletrap 



When I went along to my local Post Office a couple of weeks ago to tax my Oval I took my insurance details with me to show them. To my surprise the lady behind the counter didn't ask to see them and when I mentioned it to her she said "No, I don't need your insurance document". I then just assumed that when they issue you with a tax disc (which incidentally is being discontinued in October/ November) they can automatically check that the vehicle has valid insurance cover.


Dave
"When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading"
pre67vw
10 years ago

She daid yes it allows her to issue a tax disc! I asked her to hold as I'd wait to the end of the month

Originally Posted by: Rattletrap 



:omg: It's free, why not just take it while it was all going good for you?
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Rattletrap
10 years ago

When I went along to my local Post Office a couple of weeks ago to tax my Oval I took my insurance details with me to show them. To my surprise the lady behind the counter didn't ask to see them and when I mentioned it to her she said "No, I don't need your insurance document". I then just assumed that when they issue you with a tax disc (which incidentally is being discontinued in October/ November) they can automatically check that the vehicle has valid insurance cover.

Originally Posted by: vintagebug 



Thas the thing. The lady was going to issue the tax disc but Rattletrap has no insurance:?

Im begining to think that my concussion is worse tahn I thoght:(
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Rattletrap
10 years ago

:omg: It's free, why not just take it while it was all going good for you?

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



I see youre point Rob but with no insurance?? That comes back to my previous queston;

HELP No2:!:
Can someone also confirm that if you stop insurance on a tax exempt car, do you then have to send the disc back and SORN it:?:

Originally Posted by: Rattletrap 



If you have a taxed vehicle but no insurance I think that is an offence:shock:

So why would they issue a tax disc toan uninsured car:?:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
10 years ago

I see youre point Rob but with no insurance?? That comes back to my previous queston;

If you have a taxed vehicle but no insurance I think that is an offence:shock:

So why would they issue a tax disc toan uninsured car:?:

Originally Posted by: Rattletrap 



I don't know, but as long as you're not driving without insurance I wouldn't worry about it. I thought it was all computerised these days, you don't need to present your insurance docs like the olden days.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Old Blue
10 years ago

I don't know, but as long as you're not driving without insurance I wouldn't worry about it. I thought it was all computerised these days, you don't need to present your insurance docs like the olden days.

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



Apparently you don't. But the car certainly has to be road legal, and that includes having valid insurance. With the new system, unless a vehicle is SORNed, it has to have a valid tax disc and insurance, plus MOT of course, otherwise the insurance becomes invalid anyway.This is called continuous insurance. If the insurance is stopped, the tax disc has to be returned (unless expired of course), and SORN declared.

By applying for a tax disc for an uninsured car Rattletrap would have commited an offence.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
Rattletrap
10 years ago

thought it was all computerised these days...

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



Yes it isRob but isnt thatwhat makes it so easy for the DVLA/police to find owners of taxed but uninsured vehicles:?
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
pre67vw
10 years ago
Only takes about 10 minutes to get a car insured online and it's cheap too if its a classic, then there's not a problem is there :wink:
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
pre67vw
10 years ago


By applying for a tax disc for an uninsured car Rattletrap would have commited an offence.

Originally Posted by: Old Blue 



Crikey, call special branch. :roll:
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
ozymandias
10 years ago

Its an interesting car, and I think best kept in its military spec as it seems to have been that way for a long time. Are you buying it then?

Originally Posted by: Old Blue 



Not yet, too many other projects at the moment. Maybe next year:smile:

Rattletrap
10 years ago

Crikey, call special branch. :roll:

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



Ithink the guy works in it:mellow:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Old Blue
10 years ago

Only takes about 10 minutes to get a car insured online and it's cheap too if its a classic, then there's not a problem is there :wink:

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



Maybe he's just looking for excuses to justify keeping Rattletrap off the road. He's owned the car for a few years now, and as far as I know, the car still has not been seen anywhere.

I know that it can be difficult to give these cars a run when you have a collection, but we'll be using most of our fleet this summer, and Jon's always using the oval. Classic cars benefit from being driven, and with the free tax, and for the older vintage cars, the MOT exemption, it has never been so easy to run more than one classic. We've started using our Minor Traveller a little already, though we've not had it long. I've made sure that it is in roadwothy condition, and as its from 1959, apparently I do not need to MOT even though it still has the PLG tax class - which will be changed to Historic once we send the registration document back to the DVLA.

Needless to say, Old Blue is usually out with the sunshine!
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
Herbert
10 years ago
Gents,

This really isn't very difficult at all.....

Historic vehicles require the driver to have a licence entitling them to drive that class of vehicle.

Historic vehicles require insurance.

Historic vehicles require (at the moment) a vehicle excise licence to be displayed.

It is an offence to drive a motor vehicle on a road without a licence entitling you to drive a vehicle of that classification.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without tax.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without insurance.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without a valid MOT***.

If you declare a vehicle "off the road" by SORN you do NOT have to tax or insure it.

***If you want to use or keep an historic vehicle on the road you no longer need an MOT subject to date limits.

One does NOT commit any offence by applying for a "zero cost" historic vehicle excise licence if one has no appropriate licence, insurance, MOT or vice versa as long as the vehicle is not going to be kept on a road.

"Road" in this context means a public road repairable at public expense.

Cheers,

Herbs.

+1
Rattletrap
10 years ago

Maybe he's just looking for excuses to justify keeping Rattletrap off the road. He's owned the car for a few years now, and as far as I know, the car still has not been seen anywhere.!

Originally Posted by: Old Blue 



Thats why despite still having concussion from my head injury I have been making attempsto work on Rattlletrap so to have him on the road this summer:roll:
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Rattletrap
10 years ago
Poor Rattletrap after his big smash in the States, and the bottom picture as he is today - damn good panelbeater!!:

UserPostedImage 

You can almost hear the comments now:

'That will polish out ', and

'Well the steering was actuallly on the right side'
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Rattletrap
10 years ago

Mrs Rattletrap:?

Thats a thought. Any good artists, Adobe illustrator/Photoshoppers fancy a go at doing a Mrs Rattletrap match for the cartoon Rattletrap (as in my avatar)?

Originally Posted by: Rattletrap 



No takers it seems?

The old guy needs some love:(

I'll get it sorted... watcth this page:d
Rattletrap – the Volkswagen Beetle that has covered an incredible mileage equivalent to over 35 times around the planet :omg:
Running nifty since 1950… the King of Volkswagens:beer: Why not make friends with this famous little VW – he's on facebook! :d
http://forums.pre67vw.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=16378 
Old Blue
10 years ago

Gents,

This really isn't very difficult at all.....

Historic vehicles require the driver to have a licence entitling them to drive that class of vehicle.

Historic vehicles require insurance.

Historic vehicles require (at the moment) a vehicle excise licence to be displayed.

It is an offence to drive a motor vehicle on a road without a licence entitling you to drive a vehicle of that classification.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without tax.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without insurance.

It is an offence to use or keep a motor vehicle on a road without a valid MOT***.

If you declare a vehicle "off the road" by SORN you do NOT have to tax or insure it.

***If you want to use or keep an historic vehicle on the road you no longer need an MOT subject to date limits.

One does NOT commit any offence by applying for a "zero cost" historic vehicle excise licence if one has no appropriate licence, insurance, MOT or vice versa as long as the vehicle is not going to be kept on a road.

"Road" in this context means a public road repairable at public expense.

Cheers,

Herbs.


Originally Posted by: Herbert 




Your post is not wholly correct, Herbert.


Taken from your above post:

''One does NOT commit any offence by applying for a "zero cost" historic vehicle excise licence if one has no appropriate licence, insurance, MOT or vice versa as long as the vehicle is not going to be kept on a road.''


Here is a paragraph from the DVLA booklet (V100):

''If your vehicle is not being used on the road, you must make a SORN or you will be committing an insurance offence. If your vehicle is taxed and you no longer wish to use it on the road you must return the tax disc (including nil value tax disc) to DVLA using an 'Application for a refund of vehicle tax when you have the tax disc' (V14). You can make a SORN at the same time as returning the disc on the V14. We may apply other penalties if you use this vehicle on the road after making a SORN.''



What this means to us is that we cannot keep our cars taxed all year and just insure them when we go out to a show. We have to continually have them insured while we have a tax disc for it. If we stop the insurance we have to return the tax disc and declare SORN. The minimum period for SORN is 21 days.

So it follows that Rattletrap or anyone else would be committing an insurance offence by applying for a tax disc for a vehicle while having no insurance cover for using it on the public road.
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
pre67vw
10 years ago



Here is a paragraph from the DVLA booklet (V100):

If your vehicle is taxed and you no longer wish to use it on the road you must return the tax disc (including nil value tax disc) to DVLA using an 'Application for a refund of vehicle tax when you have the tax disc' (V14).

Originally Posted by: Old Blue 



I guess it's down to interpretation, but I don't agree with your conclusions. His vehicle would be taxed and he does wish to use it on the road, so this doesn't apply.
Rob Amos
Happiness is a stock VW
Old Blue
10 years ago

I guess it's down to interpretation, but I don't agree with your conclusions. His vehicle would be taxed and he does wish to use it on the road, so this doesn't apply.

Originally Posted by: pre67vw 



At the risk of being obsessive and 'off topic', for my concern and the benefit of others I have been in touch with the DVLA.

From the horse's mouth, so to speak;

'' If you stop the insurance on your motor vehicle it has to be declared SORN with the tax disc (if still valid) returned. An uninsured vehicle does not have to be seen on the road to be committing an insurance offence. If our computer records show a vehicle to be uninsured and not SORNed it is considered that the owner is intending to continue using it on the public road without insurance. The minimum SORN period is 21 days.''

''Regarding pre 1974 vehicles with registration documents still showing tax class PLG, the owner will now be required to the pay the PLG tax to get a tax disc. The owner will then need to send us the document which will be changed to historic class, and a refund of the remaining PLG tax paid will be made.''
1956 VW Beetle, 1962 Morris Minor, 1968 VW Beetle (Old Blue), 1972 Morris Mini, 2005 MGTF

Blue, blue, Electric Blue, that's the colour of Old Blue!
Herbert
10 years ago
I'm not sure which horse you've been speaking to, but you need to look at section 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

You only need to insure a motor vehicle if it is going to be used or kept on a public road.

With regard to obtaining a historic (free) tax disc, as I said before, it's the way you talk to people.

Maybe you should offer the horse a bigger carrot.

Herbs.
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